Did NO Xplode Cause My Internal Bleeding?

[ShadowOne]

I had a collapsed lung surgically repaired back in March. A few weeks ago, I was ready to get back into lifting and took NoExplode for a couple days before my first workout session. Well, I ended up back at the hospital to have a liter of blood drained from the pleural space on the side I had my surgery.

I know NO has vasodilating effects, but do you think it had anything to do with my bleeding? I was also taking Celebrex at the time as well, plus it's possible it could have just been some sudden post-surgery complications as well which is not completely unheard of. So It's hard to tell. But I've never heard of horror stories of people on NO who have problems with bleeding.

Drop me a hint here!

[ghostwheel]

That is definately an "Ask the doctor" type of question. Who cares what the bulletin board people say. Get that one answered by your doctor please.

I have never heard of that happening myself but this is post surgery so it is worth a trip to the doc to find out. Bring a list of ingredients with you.

[wedgylx]

I would check if internal bleeding is a side effect of celebrex. Anything is possible, like ghost said ask your dr.

unfortunately Dr's are far too fast to blame supplements, but hes your only choice really.

[ShadowOne]

Cox-2 inhibitors like Celebrex can sometimes lead to bleeding in the GI tract. The Doc thought it would be wierd for Celebrex to cause bleeding anywhere else. All my bloodwork was normal -- platelets, etc.

It never dawned on me that it could have been the NO since I've been taking supplements for years like it was nothing, although this was my first time taking an NO supplement. I did a quick search on Rutaecarpine, which is listed as an ingredient in NO Xplode. I found something interesting:



Research Paper

Antithrombotic effect of rutaecarpine, an alkaloid isolated from Evodia rutaecarpa, on platelet plug formation in in vivo experiments

J. R. Sheu,1 W. C. Hung,1 C. H. Wu,2 Y. M. Lee3 and M. H. Yen3

In this study, platelet thrombi formation was induced by irradiation of mesenteric venules with filtered light in mice pretreated intravenously with fluorescein sodium. Rutaecarpine (200 µg/g) significantly prolonged the latent period of inducing platelet plug formation in mesenteric venules when it was intravenously injected. Rutaecarpine (200 µg/g) prolonged occlusion time by approximately 1·5-fold (control 127 ± 29 vs. taecarpine 188 ± 23 s). Furthermore, aspirin (250 µg/g) also showed a similar prolongation of the occlusion time in this experiment. On a molar basis, rutaecarpine was approximately twofold more potent than aspirin at prolonging the occlusion time. Furthermore, rutaecarpine was also effective in reducing the mortality of ADP-induced acute pulmonary thromboembolism in mice when administered intravenously at doses of 25 and 50 µg/g. Intravenous injection of rutaecarpine (50 µg/g) significantly prolonged the bleeding time by approximately 1·5-fold compared with normal saline in the severed mesenteric arteries of rats. Continuous infusion of rutaecarpine (5 µg/g/min) also significantly increased the bleeding time 1·5-fold, and the bleeding time returned to baseline within 60 min after cessation of rutaecarpine infusion. These results suggest that rutaecarpine has an effective anti-platelet effect in vivo and that it may be a potential therapeutic agent for arterial thrombosis, but it must be assessed further for toxicity.

[dinoiii]

Agree with Ghost + Wedge...see your doctor immediately.

what kind of surgical repair are you referencing? Being s/p any procedure makes the differential astronomic in some instances. You are only < 2 months removed after all.

I am going to guess it is a surgical complication.

My rationale is as follows:

The GI bleeds see with analgesics of the COX-1/COX-2 inhibitor classes are usually attributed to the COX-1 receptor (i.e. - joint receptor antagonists like NSAIDs). This is generally the rationale for the move to the more expensive COX-2's in the first place.

NO vasodilatory effects would likely be compensated for via autoregulation before any bleeds would take place. The Xplode is just a name! :wink:

[ShadowOne]

Hi dinoii. Sounds like you work in the medical field. Yes, it was a spontaneous pnuemo resulting from a small ruptured bulla at the apex of my left lung. And no, I'm not a tall lanky guy. Average height with muscular build (not so musclular anymore, lol).

Anyway, the surgical procedure consisted of bullectomy followed by mechanical pleurodesis. I'm thinking my lung didn't adhere correctly to the chest wall and part of it tore away somehow. I figured because the CT showed the pleural effusion seeping partially up the posterior of the lung but not the anterior. And the first sign of pleural pain was in the posterior of the lung. Either that or there was a blood vessel hanging by a thread. Either way, the transient vasodilation and inhibition of platelet function by 'Xplode could have made the resulting bleeding worse. Sort of like taking aspirin and then picking your nose too aggressively -- you may bleed longer than usual.

I've never suspected the NO to be the root cause, but it could have exacerbated the situation. I'm scheduled to see the doc for a follow-up soon, but I know what he'll say. I'm just on protein right now as I'm back into lifitng without any problems thus far. But not ditching the 'Xplode quite yet though.