Supplements Good for Kidney Problems

[jw25558]

I'm trying to get some info to help my dad. Hopefully Dinoiii and others will see this thread. He has had appox 5 cases of kidney stones since 1986 and now he tells me that his kidneys dont function well. I wont get into the specifics. I know one of his problems is his water intake, which I am working on getting him to change. I was looking for some kind of natural supplementation that can help him for now until the urologists can do something for him. He's 55yr old. Any info greatly appreciated.

[RisingAgainst]

I'm trying to get some info to help my dad. Hopefully Dinoiii and others will see this thread. He has had appox 5 cases of kidney stones since 1986 and now he tells me that his kidneys dont function well. I wont get into the specifics. I know one of his problems is his water intake, which I am working on getting him to change. I was looking for some kind of natural supplementation that can help him for now until the urologists can do something for him. He's 55yr old. Any info greatly appreciated.
A big one is the one you nailed, WATER. Water works wonders and if the water intake isn't there, then don't expect things to get better through science alone.

[bLacKjAcK]

A big one is the one you nailed, WATER. Water works wonders and if the water intake isn't there, then don't expect things to get better through science alone.

Sooo true.

If most people upped their water intake they would have half the things go wrong that do.

[Brolic]

Not sure but I think Cranberry Juice is also a good source to help your kidneys. As far as supplementation I am not sure but I know theres one out there for your dad.

[JrBirdMan]

I'm trying to get some info to help my dad. Hopefully Dinoiii and others will see this thread. He has had appox 5 cases of kidney stones since 1986 and now he tells me that his kidneys dont function well. I wont get into the specifics. I know one of his problems is his water intake, which I am working on getting him to change. I was looking for some kind of natural supplementation that can help him for now until the urologists can do something for him. He's 55yr old. Any info greatly appreciated.

A good calcium formula will help with the kidney stones. LOTS OF WATER.

[Brolic]

- Here is a google search I found about the concern on helping your kidney stones. Hope it works ;)

http://www.mothernature.com/Library/Bookshelf/Books/47/88.cfm

[Clickster]

16oz of Cranberry Juice/ a day
1 1/2 Gallons of Water/ a day


If you don't want to drink Cranberry Juice, you can also get Cranberry Supplementation Caps. I know of a few people that had urinary and kidney problems and took the cranberry caps as suggested on the bottle until it was gone with 1 1/2 gallons of water a day and everything was fine.

Hope everything gets better bro. Water is the biggie..

[dinoiii]

There are 4 general types of stones (based on essential makeup) so adequate prevention will likely be MOST DEPENDENT upon the type of stone that has prevailed. The suggestion of recurrent stones is a bit disconcerning, but may point to an issue that simple water will actually NOT cure namely if the composition is cysteine - of course, this is rare, but so is his continued recurrency.

Now, the remaining types calcium (either oxylate or phosphate), Uric Acid, or Struvite will all dictate where I go with a bit of further questioning and I can completely understand and appreciate if you don't want the information divulged over the internet. That is at your own discretion, but seeing how your dad isn't the posting paty,...it may simply serve as nothing more than an informational to share with your doctor.

Calcium Stones: Has he ever been screened for either hyperparathyroidism -or- cancers? Hypercalcemia is oftentimes the result of said conditions and it may and/or may not be an issue. This is the most common type of stone BUT you have not really expressed much. The rationale centering on hypercalcemia as a result of hyperparathyroidism is that parathyroid secretion actually resorbs bone calcium into the bloodstream (hence the "emia" part...anytime you see this in medicine...it means "in the blood" literally). Oftentimes, the person suffers multiple fractures, becomes very uncomfortable suffering from advanced gastrointestinal distress and also has some mental challenges (in medical school, we tend to remember the neumonic for this as "stones, bones, groans, and psychiatric overtones." Crazy I know but when you try and recall the symptamatology, it helps sometimes. ;) ). As for cancers...again, I would center on whether your dad has had any bone pain unusually increasing in nature or anything - usually something known as a paraneoplastic syndrome could cause issue here, maybe through metastasis of a prostate or lung cancer (no smoking history, urination issues, correct?).

Uric Acid Stones: Now, the biggest concern may be a history of gout or chemotherapy for cancer treatment here. There are treatments though that would likely help and certainly I am going to assume that a uric acid level has long-since been drawn.

Struvite: If the stones have been coupled with long-term battling off urinary tract infections, this may be an issue. In the absence of recurrent infection, I don't tend to get too excited with my own patients.

Cysteine: This is the least common, but to me most concerning potential because of your dad's recurrent issues. No one in your family has ever been diagnosed (your dad included) with Cystinuria, correct?


I will await your response to any aid you can give me to above questions asked and things presented. If you choose, we can take this to email but I am pretty backed up that route currently. My recommendations would be based on the responses of course and in addition, you and I should you care to proceed with this discussion understand that this is for informational purposes only and NOT meant to take the place of your father's EXAMINING physician suggestions. I would hope it could foster increased rapport however between your father and that individual.



D_

[jw25558]

Dinoiii, I believe his are calcium oxylate but let me take him a copy of this and have him answer all of the questions and I'll post back(probably Thursday) Thanks Bro!

[dinoiii]

Dinoiii, I believe his are calcium oxylate but let me take him a copy of this and have him answer all of the questions and I'll post back(probably Thursday) Thanks Bro!

No problem. Await his responses.

D_

[jw25558]

Dinoiii His stones are definitely Calcium Oxylate. He has never been tested for hyperparathyroidism as far as he knows. He has also told me that his stones are increasing in size every recurrence. In fact, the last one was the size of a dime and had to be removed surgically. He recalled in one test that he has a high level of I believe uric acid present in the urine. These are 2 medications he is currently using:

Allopurinol Tab 300 mg
Hydrochlorothiazid 50 mg
He tries to avoid food containing significant amounts of oxylate.

Another symptom he wanted me to mention was the fact his kidneys dont seem to act when he is working or on his feet but when he sleeps, he has to make 3-4 trips to the restroom every night. Your advice is greatly appreciated!

[jw25558]

bump.........

[dinoiii]

I have seen your bump...it always depends on what kind of time I have for response. That said, I will likely be able to put up a full-fledged response tomorrow. I am working out some legal documents today for some upcoming plans.

D_

[jw25558]

I have seen your bump...it always depends on what kind of time I have for response. That said, I will likely be able to put up a full-fledged response tomorrow. I am working out some legal documents today for some upcoming plans.

D_

No problem Dinoiii I knew you got alot of messages so I figured you may have overlooked it but no hurry at all. You are much appreciated by myself and all of us here:)

[dinoiii]

Dinoiii His stones are definitely Calcium Oxylate. He has never been tested for hyperparathyroidism as far as he knows. He has also told me that his stones are increasing in size every recurrence. In fact, the last one was the size of a dime and had to be removed surgically. He recalled in one test that he has a high level of I believe uric acid present in the urine. These are 2 medications he is currently using:

Allopurinol Tab 300 mg
Hydrochlorothiazid 50 mg
He tries to avoid food containing significant amounts of oxylate.

Another symptom he wanted me to mention was the fact his kidneys dont seem to act when he is working or on his feet but when he sleeps, he has to make 3-4 trips to the restroom every night. Your advice is greatly appreciated!


Allopurinol...hmmm...does he have a history of gout? You do mention he has had a high uric acid level in the past...and allopurinol is one of the 4 prototypical agents that we would treat someone with gout with. There could be uric acid stones potential as well. But I will default to the calcium oxylate stones due to your affirmation.

My first thought with the recurrency would be those questions I put up in the neumonic earlier in the thread: "moans, bones, groans, psychiatric overtones" (recall: GI discomfort, fractures, etc...) Also ask if he has never had a parathyroid hormone level drawn, now may be the time.

What he can do on his end:

[1] Diet: reducing his level of oxylate is a great start. I am certain he has been coached that it is NOT necessarily oxylate to avoid, but moreso the things that increase urinary oxylate excretion, of which there are only a few like: spinach, rhubarb, beet greens, nuts, chocolate, tea, bran, almonds, peanuts, and strawberries. Other than that we haven't really been able to replicate things in studies, even the other things touted as high in oxylate to increase urinary oxylate excretion...so I think he is generally ok if he simply leaves these items out.

Reducing urinary oxylate isn't the only thing though which you can probably tell based on the name of the stone. YUP, urinary calcium also increases risk of stone formation of this type. So, this means we add to our list: animal protein from meat, dairy, poultry, or fish on the urinary increase end. Perhaps for this reason, consumption of animal protein has been linked to an increased risk of forming stones and vegetarians are actually reported in some research to have lower risks for stone formation. Now, I am a doc of reason and would suggest rather than essentially stopping his life of enjoying a palatable culinary existence, he should just be very sensible about these items, while increasing fluid intake precipitously with said meals.

I know what you're thinking: if you're such a good doctor, why would you allow someone to eat protein when it is clearly bad...not necessarily...there is one controlled trial, contrary to expectations, after 4.5 years of follow-up, those who restricted their dietary protein actually had an INCREASED risk of forming a stone compared to the control group. So, the conflicting data tell me one thing (even if it is just one study)...until more is known and continued to be replicated, it makes sense to consume a diet with a moderate amount of protein, perhaps partially limiting animal protein.

Salt increases urinary calcium excretion in stone formers. In theory this should increase the risk of stone formation. So, restricting dietary salt consumption may be of some benefit - to what level is unclear at this time.

[2] POTASSIUM: This I love to recommend. Why, well not only can it aid blood pressure, it is something that reduces urinary calcium excretion and high levels of consumption are associated with low stone risk. Most stone research actually involves potassium citrate, so I'd be hard pressed to suggest another type.

There's one real neat one that over 28 months time frame, stone formers consumed 5 grams of potassium citrate 3 times per day...they had a significantly lower recurrence vs. those taking potassium for 8 months at that tally and those taking no potassium at all. Some potassium research also shows significance without ANY citrate at all though, so its likely best attributed to the potassium

[3] MAGNESIUM: Some of the citrate-loving researchers combined potassium citrate + magnesium citrate...and there's even a really well-done double-blind trial showing the recurrence rate of stones DROPPED from 64%-->13% when both supplements were high-dosed. The dosing regime in that trial was 6 pills per day - enough to supply 1,600mg of potassium and enough magnesium citrate to supply 500mg of magnesium ... again - keep in mind to divide the tally shown on most ingredients to find accurate amounts of both potassium and magnesium.

[4] Grapefruit juice has an unclear relationship but therer have been some increases, whether coincidental or otherwise is unknown.

[5] Bran - bingo, rich source of insoluble fiber which reduces absorption of calcium - and you can hopefully see the connection. Now, before you add this - check calcium levels first with your doctor, because even though you may have stones, you may not be absorbing calcium adequately and I would be simply wary that a further deficiency isn't good either.

[6] Another supplement that may be of benefit is inositol-hexaphosphate - aka - phytic acid....which you may be more familiar with as IP-6. The one trial that I often cite has patients ingesting 120mg of IP-6 for 15 days and in that short time span, you can see significant reduction in calcium oxylte crystals.

[7] Believe it or not, calcium is NOT an increasing risk factor...it usually binds oxyalte in the GI tract and isn't absorbed, thereby decreasing urinary oxylate excretion. There is one study to conflict with this data and it was a nurse's study that had them ingesting supplemental calcium, so I would say to simply limit calcium SUPPLEMENTS rather than calcium all-in-all.

[8] Vit B6 - now, this used to be seen in the Merck Manual as recommending 100-200mg of Vit B6...but recent studies have actually suggested this to be super-underdosed and this is one of those things that under supervision of your doctor - orthomolecular dosing of 1,000mg of Vit B6 per day has had a phenomenal 90% decrease in recurrence rate. This is usually heightened when ingested in concert with magnesium.

[9] DO NOT supplement with Vit D.

[10] best of the rest: Chondroiton sulfate - 60mg/day, Vitamin E - 200 IU, Pumkin Seeds - 60mg per every 2.2 pounds of bodyweight.



Dinoiii's Summary for Calcium Oxylate Kindey Stone Combative Strategy:

Potassium Citrate: 1,600mg/day
Magnesium Citrate: 500mg/day
Vitamin B6: 1,000mg/day (with doctor's ok)
IP-6: 120mg
Bran: liberally (have doctor get Calcium level checked first with Parathyroid hormone (PTH) level; with a noraml PTH level...check calcium level periodically to make sure absorption isn't impeded too much)
Chondroiton sulfate - 60mg/day
Vitamin E - 200 IU
Pumkin Seeds - 60mg per every 2.2 pounds of bodyweight.
Avoid: Grapefruit Juice, spinach, rhubarb, beet greens, nuts, chocolate, tea, bran, almonds, peanuts, and strawberries, supplemental vitamin C & calcium
Animal Proteins: In moderation
OK to ingest (contrary to wive's tales): caffeinated beverages


D_

[jw25558]

Dinoiii I'll give it to him tomorrow. Thanks a million for taking the time to put this together for us and God Bless!