Supplement Spotlight: Hawthorn

[dinoiii]

Supplement Spotlight: Hawthorn

Author’s Note: The author has made every effort to ensure the accuracy and completeness of the information presented in this article. In fact, I am willing to suggest this to be the most complete piece offered on this supplement to date. However, the author, Chris Gatchis, nor Discount Anabolics/Rocky Mountain Sports Nutrition can or should be held responsible for the continued currency of the information, any inadvertent errors or omissions, or the application of this information. Therefore, all of the aforementioned parties shall have NO liability to any person or entity with regard to claims, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused, directly or indirectly, by the use of information contained herein.

The inclusion of any product in respect to which patent or trademark rights may exist shall not be deemed, and is not intended as, a grant of authority to exercise any right or privilege protected by such patent or trademark. All such rights or trademarks are vested in the patent or trademark owner, and no other person may exercise the same without expressed permission, authority, or license secured from such patent or trademark owner.

The inclusion of a brand name does NOT mean the author nor any of the aforementioned parties has any particular knowledge that the brand listed has properties different from other brands of the same product, nor should its inclusion be interpreted as an endorsement by the author or said parties. Similarly, the fact that a particular brand does not indicate the product has been judged to be in any way unsatisfactory or unacceptable. Further, no official support or endorsement of this article by any federal or state agency or pharmaceutical company is intended or inferred.

You will read herein about signs, symptoms, and a classification system as applied by the New York Heart Association (NYHA) in regards to congestive heart failure (CHF). This is NOT to replace the diagnostic and treatment modality supplied by an examining physician, but potentially encourages accurate discussion of complimentary and alternative medicine (CAM) treatment strategies as an adjunct to potential care received.


Introduction

The hawthorn tree has a storied past that includes significant acknowledgement in Christian tradition. The name Crataegus (genus of Hawthorn species – see later) is said to be a Greek derivation from the word for “strong” or “always having been there.” It is suggested that the crown of thorns placed on the head of Christ was of its origin. In fact, a grove of hawthorn trees still stands outside of Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives.

Medicinal use of Hawthorn can be traced back to the 1st Century AD. Dioscorides, Pliny, and Galen all referred to hawthorn in their writings but gave little explanation of its use. The use of its leaves and flowers in particular, as a remedy for heart disorders dates back to the nineteenth century. Quercetanus, physician of Henry IV of France, used syrup made from hawthorn fruit to treat heart ailments.

Many species of hawthorn are distributed throughout the moderate zones of the Northern Hemisphere. The fruit, leaves, and flowers of hawthorn species have been used medicinally for centuries and were in use by North American Indians before the arrival of Europeans to treat sleep and digestive disorders, as well as a diuretic for kidney and bladder disorders (later this effect would likely contribute to both its blood pressure lowering properties as well as the heart tonic effect described well before). Hawthorrn has a long history of use in traditional Chinese medicine.

Recently, it has gained acclaim as a potential adjunct in the battle against hypertension (high blood pressure). It contains rutin, magnesium, chromium, catechin, and several other phytochemicals, all of which work to combat high blood pressure.


By Any Other Name

It is all too often that I hear complaints that these scientific names continue to crop up and I agree, but Hawthorn is rather basic. It tends to go by one of its 3 predominate genus and/or species names. You may see Hawthorn referenced in supplements by any of the following:
- Crataegus monogyna
- Crataegus laevigata
- Crataegus oxyacantha
- Crataegus oxyacanthoides

Please note that the last two on this list of four reference the same species. How these names come about sometime is very funny, these just stem from standard botanical classification schemes as discussed below.


Family, Genus & Species

Although Crataegus oxycantha and Crataegus monogyna, species of European shrubs, are generally named as the source of hawthorn extracts, Petrides (1086) points out that the number of hawthorn species native to North America have been variously estimated from 100 to 1000 with considerable hybridization, making identification difficult. It is likely that all species of these shrubs and low trees possess similar chemical constituents. Chang and colleagues (2002) name 6 species of Hawthorn used medicinally around the world. Hawthorn are members of the Rosaceae family.

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Plant Part Used

Hawthorn is a European shrub with thorny branches. Much of its action on the cardiovascular system is attributed to its flavanoid concentration. Its flowers & leaves

Active Constituents

The best cited active constituents are the

- Flavanoids (1.8%)

Hyperoside (0.28%)
Rutin (0.17%)

- Oligomeric Procyanidins (2-3%)

The procyanidins and flavanoids in hawthorn are thought to determine its therapeutic actions. As seen below, these substances are projected to be responsible for vasodilatory effects thought to be responsible for the efficacious benefit seen in cardiac insufficient states (i.e. – CHF, HYHA class I-II).

Other cited active constituents include:

- Catechins
- Triterpenoids
- Aromatic Carboxylic Acids
- Cardioactive Amines
- Amino & Purine Derivatives
- Others

[dinoiii]

Mechanism of Action

Cardiotonic effect
cAMP-independent Positive inotropic / Negative chronotropic, dromotropic effects

Phosphodiesterase Inhibition
Increased coronary blood flow / Increased cardiac output / Reduced O2 consumption

Blockade of Angiotensin Converting Enzyme (ACE)
Vasodilatory (peripheral and coronary) effect

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Potassium Channel Activation

Inhibition of Thromboxane Synthesis

Antilipidemic Effect
Positive suggested effect on total cholesterol, triglycerides, LDL, VLDL lipid fractions as well as upregulation of LDL receptors in the liver.

Antiarrythmic Effect
Usually protects against ischemia-induced ventricular arrhythmias

Hypotensive Effect*
suspect through multiple pathways, rationale for Peri-cycle/PCT use potential.

Antioxidative Action

Antiinflammatory Effects


Pharmacokinetics

Procyanidins have been found unmetabolized in renal and intestinal elimination pathways (for other similar cpds), suggesting limited metabolic degradation. The procyanidins of hawthorn are reported to have a higher degree of polymerization, yet a lower concentration of flavanoids and procyanidins...this area is still being considered though. Stay tuned...

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USES

Typical Therapeutic Uses

Approved Uses: Commission E approves hawthorn leaf and flowers in the treatment of heart failure (NYHA, Stage II). This herb is as well studied as any for cardiovascular disease and is commonly used in combination with cardiac glycosides (i.e. – digoxin) to potentiate their effects and thereby lessen the dose of cardiac glycoside drugs. Clinical trials support its use for mild to moderate congestive heart failure. It has been the subject of a number of major long-term multi-center clinical trials on the survival and prognosis of congestive heart failure as well.

Unproven Uses: More research is needed to determine hawthorn’s value in treating hypertension, atherosclerosis, hyperlipidemia, asthma, arrthythmia in the elderly, and orthostatic hypertension. Due to its high flavanoid content, it may be used to decrease capillary fragility, lessen inflammation, and prevent collagen destruction of joints. This herb has been used as a coffee substitute and to flavor cigarettes.

Literature Review – 15 studies to date:

(1) Congestive Heart Failure (CHF):

- 11 randomized clinical trials to date showing statistically significant results, most recently 1 in 2003
- 1 systematic review
- 1 meta-analysis (2003)
- 1 equivlence trial
- 1 non-randomized, cohort, non-inferiority study (2003)

(2) Coronary Artery Disease:

- 1 randomized clinical trial to date showing statistically significant results, unfortunately most recent

(3) Functional Cardiovascular Disorders

- 2 randomized clinical trials to date showing statistically significant results, most recently 1 in 2000; 1 of the trials hawthorn was in combo with camphor, 1 of the trials hawthorn was in combo with garlic (so, somewhat hard to draw true conclusions)


Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT)

There has been a recent resurgence of Hawthorn use amongst the bodybuilding community – namely with the advent of more highly animated adjunct schedules for PCT regimes. I have explored this agent and its potential use in light of its potential to lower blood pressure and lipid (cholesterol) values as discussed in this article and PCT: A Clinician’s View article series.

A few things worth noting here is that there are NO clinical trials or the like to support the use of such agents with concurrent administration of PH/PS/AAS and any resultant blood pressure and/or hyperlipidemic effects. However, with the current plethora of quoted anti-estrogenic agents and aromatase-inhibiting agents being marketed, yet not even 1/1000th of the same amount of money being driven toward health benefits of supplements regarded generally safe, with relatively few, if any noted side effects that are substantiated (see toxicology section of this very article) – the employment of such an agent as a “safety-net” may be in better taste than the purported UN-tested agents described above.

Well dinoiii, with all this talk of treatment for congestive heart failure and seemingly lack of support to surround the theory of lowering blood pressure, why would you suggest employment of this agent as an adjunct for PCT? Great question!

Rationale 1. In a study conducted by Schmidt of Cologne, Germany on 40 patients (avg. age 60 years old) with high blood pressure and “stable coronary insufficiency” who took hawthorn dosed at 200mg, three times per day, for eight weeks – saw statistically significant drops in blood pressure spanning that time frame. Before taking the hawthorn, they tired easily and had diminished physical ability, but after eight weeks on hawthorn, these symptoms occurred 42% fewer times. Maybe that’s not all too exciting, however, blood pressure dropped an from an average of 171/115 --> 164/110 and the patient’s ability to tolerate the heart stress of physical work increased.

Rationale 2. In a related study by German physicians (again, Eastern bloc trumps the West!) Bodigheimer and Chase studied 36 patients (average age of 61) who had angina, a history of heart attacks and arrhythmia, and who were 20% overweight, taking 300mg daily of hawthorn extract for 28 days. Cardiovascular health improved and significant blood pressure declinations (average 10 points systolic, 5 points diastolic) were seen after about a two week treatment span.

This being said, due to the indication of some of the antihypertensive effects to take a few weeks to kick in and adequate dosing may entail addition of such an agent two to three weeks prior to cycle. There is good clinical suggestion that starting it at a point when blood pressure is already above baseline may be unwarranted.


Typical Forms & Dosage

- Suggested Daily Dose: 3.5-19.8mg flavanoids, calculated as hyperoside (DAB 10), or 160-900mg extract (3:1 - 7:1 with ethanol 45% v/v or methanol 70% v/v), corresponding to 30-168.7mg oligomeric procyanidins, calculated as epicatechol. Hawthorn leaf/flower can be used for unlimited time periods.

- How this translates if not concentrated (See short topic series IV for more on concentration): 0.75mg – 6 grams per day of dried flower, leaf, or by infusion; 3 – 6 mL per day of a 1:2 liquid extract of hawthorn leaf or equivalent in tablet/capsule form; 3.5 – 17.5 mL per day of a 1:5 tincture of hawthorn leaf.

- Doses for leaf and flower extracts tested in clinical trials ranged from 160-1800mg/day, while the berry extracts were tested from 300-1000mg three times per day.

- Products containing standardized extract WS 1442: (18.75% OPCs): statistically significant trials have used doses of 60mg three times per day or 80mg twice daily. The U.S. brand HeartCare (Nature's Way) is standardized in this fahsion.

- Products containing standardized extract LI 132: (2.2% flavanoids): statistically significant trials have used doses of 100mg three time daily, 200mg twice daily, and up to 300mg three times per day.

[dinoiii]

Toxicology

Contraindications

It is generally considered safe; however relative contraindications exist with cases of hypersensitivity or a history of an allergic reaction to crataegus or any of its components. An absolute contraindication has been suggested in children under the age of 12.

Side Effects

(1) Rats

Studies involving excessive dosing of hawthorn flower extract (600mg/kg/day; undefined strength; 4.4% flavanoids) over 30 days showed UNREMARKABLE adverse events.

(2) Humans

The acute oral toxicity in undefined animals of hawthorn was 6 g/kg. No target-organ toxicity was defined at 100 times the human dose (2.7 mg/kg) of concentrated hawthorn extract. Standard mutagenic and clastogenic tests were also negative.

Hawthorn was well tolerated in studies lasting up to 16 weeks. Some side effects, while rare, may have been related to hawthorn extracts cited in the literature are:
- mild rash
- headache
- sweating
- dizziness
- sleepiness
- agitation
- gastrointestinal complaints

Drug Interactions

Drug interaction profiles are not well studied; therefore most drug interactions are theoretical based on the pharmacologic properties. Most hawthorn products do warn against the concurrent use with the pharmaceutical agent digoxin due to the perceived potentiation of digoxin’s effects. This interaction was later refuted in only one study cited in the literature to date showing no significant alteration of digoxin’s pharmacokinetic parameters. However, the two treatments should NOT be employed at the same time unless perhaps monitored closely by a physician.

While digoxin is the only cited interaction that tends to be challenged in the literature, recall that there are also vasodilatory properties that are seen with Hawthorn secondary to the mechanisms suggested earlier in this article. That being said, it has been suggested to also find potential efficacy in the treatment of angina, hypertension, and atherosclerosis. Accordingly, someone taking concurrent agents with vasodilatory properties (arginine-based dietary supplements, anti-hypertensive agents, or anti-anginal agents – for example, beta-blockers) should also be closely monitored if employing the use of both because the potential to see a synergistic effect is there.

Additonal Notes

Hawthorn may increase the sedative effects of central nervous system depressants such as alcohol, barbiturates, and psychotropics; avoid concurrent use – especially while driving or operating heavy machinery. Hawthorn tea may decrease the absorption of iron salts; separate by at least 2 hours. There is also some anecdotal evidence to suggest that supplemental potassium may be otherwise best avoided while using this supplement.

Known Herbal Interactions

Hawthorn increases the action of Adonis vernalis (Adonis), Convalaria majalis (Lily of the Valley), and Scillae bulbus (Squill) when taken concurrently.

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 FEMALE-SPECIFIC CONCERNS 

Pregnancy Category: B1 (what’s this mean? No increase in frequency of malformation or other harmful effects on the fetus from limited use in women. No evidence of increased fetal damage in animal studies).

Lactation Category: C (what’s this mean? Compatible with breastfeeding)

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Dinoiii’s Safety Grade Report

Reviewing all of the toxicology data above, this product gets an overall safety score of

(1) Healthy Populace:
A+ (when used as cardioprotective preventative medicine strategy)

(2) PCT adjunct:
A (as monotherapeutic agent against high Blood Pressure);
B+ (when used concurrently with arginine-based (NO) compounds or alternative blood pressure treatment modality [please see PCT: ACV series of articles for complete listing of dietary supplement agents that possess anti-hypertensive properties]

(3) Individual Undergoing Concurrent Treatment for Cardiovascular Comorbidity:
A (when used under the supervision of a physician managing comorbidity)
C+ (when used as self-applied treatment modality)

[dinoiii]

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Regulatory Status

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Congestive Heart Failure

Congestive heart failure is more a clinical syndrome versus a particular disease state in isolation resulting from the heart’s inability to meet the body’s circulatory demands under normal physiological conditions.

The NYHA has classified CHF based on its symptomatic production as described in the table below:

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Conclusion

Clinical studies demonstrating the efficacy of hawthorn leaf/flower in NYHA class I-II heart failure are available, however, likely most significant for class II. The potential downside of trials using hawthorn for the treatment of CHF, NYHA Class II were that were not all well controlled. Nonetheless, it is the strongest correlative efficacy data to date despite some positive support shown in relation to hypertension, angina, minor arrythmias, as well as dyslipidemias.

This agent’s recent employment in the very illustrious PCT regimes remains untested in the placebo-controlled setting; however, current suggestion would imply its use better estimated to begin PRIOR to beginning a PH/PS/AAS cycle.

[dinoiii]

References

Ammon HP, Handel M. Crataegus, toxicology and pharmacology. Part II: Pharmacodynamics (author’s translation). Planta Med. 1981; 43 (3): 209-239.

Bahorun T, Gressier B, Trotin F, et al. Oxygen species scavenging activity of phenolic activities, fresh plant organs and pharmaceutical preparations. Arzneim Forsch 1996; 46: 1086-1089.

Bahorun T, Trotin F, Pommery J, Vasseur J, Pinkas M. Antioxidant activities of Crataegus monogyna extracts. Planta Med. 1994; 60 (4): 323-328.

British Herbal Medicine Association’s Scientific Committee: British Herbal pharmacopoeia, Bournemouth, 1983; BHMA, 74-75; 198.

Chang Q, Zuo Z, Harrison F, Chow MS. Hawthorn. J Clin Pharmacol. 2002; 42: 605.

Degenering FH, Suter A, Weber M, et al. A randomized double blind placebo controlled clinical trial of a standardized extract of fresh Crataegus berries (Crataegisan ®) in the treatment of patients with congestive heart failure NYHA II. Phytomedicine. 2003; 10:363-369.

Fong HHS, Bauman JL. Hawthorn. J Cardiovasc Nurs. 2002; 16(4):1-8.

Holubarsch CJ, Colucci WS, Meinertz T, et al. Survival and prognosis: investigation of crataegus extract WS 1442 in congestive heart failure (SPICE): rationale, study design, and study protocol. Eur J Heart Fail. 2000; 2: 431-437.

Houser, D. PCT: A Clinician’s View – Part II, Post Cycle Supplements: In Theory. Available at www.discountanabolics.com. 2005.

Houser, D. PCT: A Clinician’s View – Part III, Post Cycle Supplements: In Practice. Available at www.discountanabolics.com. 2005.

Houser, D. PCT: A Clinician’s View – Part III and 1/2, Special Edition: On Site in St Louis. Available at www.discountanabolics.com. 2006.

Leuchtgens H. Crataegus Species Extract WS 1442 in NYHA II heart failure. A placebo-controlled randomized double-blind study. Fortschr Med. 1993; 111 (20-21): 352-354.

Mashour NH, Lin GI, Frishman WH. Herbal medicine for the treatment of cardiovascular medicine. Arch Intern Med. 1998; 158: 2225.

Miller LG. Herbal medicinals: Selected clinical considerations focusing on known or potential herb-drug interactions. Arch Intern Med. 1998; 158: 2200.

Monographs: DAB 1998; ESCOP; Commission E

Morelli V, Zoorob RJ. Alternative therapies: Part II. Congestive heart failure and hypercholesterolemia. Am Fam Physician. 2000; 62: 1325.

Perkov E, et al. Inhibitory effect of some flavanoids and flavanoid mixtures on cyclic AMP phosphodiesterase activity of rat heart. Planta Med. 1981; 43:183-186.

Petrides GA. Trees and Shrubs: Roger Tory Peterson Field Guides. Norwalk, Conn: Easton Press; 1986: 197.

Pittler MH, Schmidt K, Ernst E. Hawthorn extract for treating chronic heart failure:meta-analysis of randomized trials. Am J Med. 2003; 114: 665-674.

Popping S, Rose H, Ionescu I, Fischer Y, Kammermeier H. Effect of a hawthorn extract on contraction and energy turnover of isolated rat cardiomyocytes. Arzneimittelforschung. 1995; 45 (11): 1157-1161.

Rigelsky JM, Sweet BV. Hawthorn: pharmacology and therapeutic uses. Am J Health Syst Pharm. 2002; 59: 417.

Scmidt U, et al. Effects of herbal crataegus-camphor combination on the symptoms of cardiovascular diseases. Arzneimittelforschung. 2000; 50 (7): 613-619.

Scmidt U, et al. Efficacy of the hawthorn (Crataegus) preparation LI 132 in 78 patients with chronic congestive heart failure defined as NYHA functional class II. Phytomedicine. 1994; I: 17-24.

Schulz V, Hansel R, Tyler VE. Rational Phytotherapy: A Physician’s Guide to Herbal Medicine. New York, NY: Springer-Verlag; 1998.

Schussler M, Holzl J, Fricke U. Myocardial effects of flavonoids from from Crataegus species. Arzneimittelforschung. 1995; 45 (8): 842-845.

Schussler M, Holzl J, Rump AF, Fricke U. Functional and antiischaemic effects of Monoacetylvitexinrhamnoside in different in vitro models. Gen Pharmacol. 1995; 26 (7): 1565-1570.

Shanthi S, Parasakythy K, Deepalakshmi PD, Devaraj SN. Hypolipidemic activity of tincture of Crataegus in rats. Indian J Biochem Biophys. 1994; 31 (2): 143-146.

Schlegelmilch R, Heywood R. J Am. Coll Toxicol. 1994; 13:103-111.

Tankanow R, Tamer HR, Streetman DS, et al. Interaction study between digoxin and a preparation of hawthorn (Crataegus oxycantha). J Clin Pharmacol. 2003; 43: 637-642.

Tauchert M. Efficacy and safety of crataegus extract WS 1442 in comparison with placebo in patients with chronic stable New York Heart Association class-III heart failure. Am Heart J. 2002; 143: 910-915.

Uchida S, et al. The effect of condensed tannins on angiotensin converting enzyme. Jpn J Pharmacol. 1987; 43: 242-245.

Weikl A, Assmus KD, Neukum-Schmidt A, Schmitz J, Zapfe G, Noh HS, et al. Crataegus Special Extract WS 1442. Assessment of objective effectiveness in patients with heart failure (NYHA II). Fortschr Med. 1996; 114 (24): 291-296.

Yao M, Brown- Woodman PDC, Ritchie H. Teratology. 2001; 64: 320-325.

[Dizzle1]

Nice to see another great article. ? What would the effects be on the use of this suppliment on an ongoing basis. I have at times had an elevated BP mostly from job stress to the point at one time going on a mild beta blocker. I have noticed that w/ the use of H-Berries over the last two months of use I have had no red flush to my face . Now this could also be that 1) I am not in the stress at this time ( that was over 1 1/2 years ago that this particular incident happened) 2) I am taking in more water which could also aide in the BP lower (not sure I am not D the Dr) 3) a lot of my diet is in much better check this last year since spending a lot of time on the forum ............................... you tell me MR. D

[dinoiii]

Although systematic analysis of hawthorn's safety profile in humans is lacking, limited adverse effects clearly associated with this agent have been reported.

TOTAL ADVERSE EVENTS REPORTED

General Sides:

(1) A recent clinical trial reported NO side effects.

(2) A 24-week multicenter observational trial of 1011 cardiac patients reported 14 total adverse events.

(3) A large survellience study of 3664 patients with Class I or II NYHA CHF/cardiac insufficiency confirmed a casual relationship for side effects in ONLY 22 patients.

GI:

(1) Rare abdominal discomfort ahs been reported in large clinical trial and surveillence study, which was uncertain of relationship to hawthorn.

(2) Mild and rare nausea have been reported.

Cardiac:

(1) Tachycardia (fast heart rate > 100 beats per minute) in this case, with facial pains of uncertain relationship to hawthorn was reported in a multicenter clinical trial.

(2) Palpitations were reported in 3 patients in a large surveillence trial of 3664 patients with cardiac failure.

* dinoiii's note: unable to dicipher whether these were true events or part of the subjective CHF feeling in these cases here.

Pulmonary:

(1) Dyspnea (trouble breathing) reported in 1 patient in double-blind trial of CHF (again challenging for me to decipher whehter this was from the actual supplement or cardiac issue while reading the study, ya know? Additional note is that this patient in particular ingested a hawthorn/passionflower extract).

Neurologic:

(1) Headache an dizziness reported in 2 patients in large 3664 patient surveillence trial.

Dermatologic:

(1) Fatigue, Sweating, Mild macular skin eruption on hands reported in double-blind trial of hawthorn/passionflower extract.

Other

(1) Sleeplessness and agitation from large surveillence trial.




Dinoiii's Summary

After reviewing the evidence, my own lit review reveals NO toxicity when taken in recommended dosages! After administration for 6 months of up to 300mg/kg daily (100 x standard human dose), NO target organ toxicity was found in the cats or dogs. Standard mutagenic and clastrogenic (chromosome-damaging) tests gave NEGATIVE tests as well.

I do, however, NOT believe it ever wise to take something lifelong (for efficacy rationale, et al) per se...yet, at recommended dosages, it does appear highly safe. You must realize that the cardiac issues may appear because of the hawthorn or extraneous other reasons I have noted above, but CoQ10 and Hawthorn both have the potential to stimulate the heart so much so that they become almost an impedence dependent upon the person.



With your case in particualr dizz, I would simply suggest to watch your beta-blocking dosing parameters. Side effects to concurrent blood pressure meds can be two-fold:

(1) Decrease it readily so much so, you get light-headed, et al secondary to too low of blood pressure
-or-
(2) You have a re-bound HIGH blood pressure effect secondary to autoregulatory effects of your body in response to taking it too far out of homeostatic balance.

Any subsequent changes in blood pressure medications as well should also be taken into consideration and of course as the article suggests talk it over with your examining physician. Feel free to show him the article and/or my response here for proper direction.

Good luck...if you do choose to employ this agent, please keep me abreast your perceived progress and any blood pressure readings. Thanks and I am glad you enjoyed the article.

D_

[Trans_Isomer]

Very very nice info dinoiii, I just got the chance to read over the article, very detailed and informative, should answer a lot of questions out there.

[Clickster]

VERY nice article man. Was a very good read.

[dinoiii]

Hey guys,


Click and Trans,
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you liked it.


UnstableMolecules,
I see that you are new; welcome to the forum! Looking forward to future interactions with you.

For true BP effects as seen in studies, Hawthorn should be dosed three times per day (as I have suggested in my PCT:ACV series; have you seen them in this Open Articles section?). If dosed appropriately, they do, in effect reach some of the toxicity case reports seen in the literature. The effects that I listed in response to Dizz's post were not in re: to end-organ toxicity but were patient complaints. Does this make sense the way I am writing it?

I think you were referencing what I suggested as acute oral toxicity (6 grams/kg) versus the placebo-controlled items I listed out in reponse to the question. Is this accurate - trying to answer your question in the best way possible.

That being said...it has also been noted that hawthorn can take up to three months or so to take effect and it may best be better started BEFORE your cycle even (kinda like a pre-cycle).

Has blood pressure been an issue for you?

Looking forward to your response,
D_

[Dizzle1]

Hey guys,


Click and Trans,
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you liked it.


UnstableMolecules,
I see that you are new; welcome to the forum! Looking forward to future interactions with you.

For true BP effects as seen in studies, Hawthorn should be dosed three times per day (as I have suggested in my PCT:ACV series; have you seen them in this Open Articles section?). If dosed appropriately, they do, in effect reach some of the toxicity case reports seen in the literature. The effects that I listed in response to Dizz's post were not in re: to end-organ toxicity but were patient complaints. Does this make sense the way I am writing it?

I think you were referencing what I suggested as acute oral toxicity (6 grams/kg) versus the placebo-controlled items I listed out in reponse to the question. Is this accurate - trying to answer your question in the best way possible.

That being said...it has also been noted that hawthorn can take up to three months or so to take effect and it may best be better started BEFORE your cycle even (kinda like a pre-cycle).

Has blood pressure been an issue for you?

Looking forward to your response,
D_

HBP is not a medical concern of mine but there have been about 3 times in my life that it was high, one of the most recent was about 19m ago. I just feel a bit better running it all the time.:rolleyes:

[TheKoos]

What are the chances you will be doing other Supplement Spotlights?

This was great. Thanks dinoiii.

[dinoiii]

The chances are VERY good. I am happy you enjoyed it. Its the positive feedback that usually dictates my writing various pieces.

I have discussed with Andrea that I am putting up a new "series" next (this one is actually OVERDUE and more in re: Studog's thread...but you will all see), then PCT:ACV V is on slate for late December.

A Short Topic Series IV is also scheduled to drop soon ( a little more editing - hehe ... to in effect make it "short" topic, you know me! ).

Supplement Spotlights will likely trickle in periodically - if anyone wants me to review in depth a particular item, let me know. I reiterate: it is always arranged on a demand basis.

Thanks for your support.

D_

[TheKoos]

My votes for future spotlights:

1. Co Q-10

2. Siberian Eleuthero

3. Mumie

[dinoiii]

Ok, I got two other emails for Supplement Spotlights as well - overall, there have been 6 supplement ingredients suggested thus far. CoQ10 was a repeat "offender" at this point.

D_