Grade my PCT

[88m]

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on my pct.

Cycle:
Days 1-5 1 capsule of Phera-Vol at 15mg once a day
Days 6-23 1 capsule of Phera-Vol at 15mg twice(30mg ed) a day
Days 24-28 1 capsule of Phera-Vol at 15mg three times(45mg ed) a day

PCT:
Hawthorne Berry 1000mg daily start @ wk.2.5
Liver tabs daily
CoQ10 60mg daily
Taurine 3-5g daily.
Celery seed extract 150mg daily
Saw palmetto
Rebound xt
Cee
NoXplode(allready had it)

[dinoiii]

Advice:

Blood Pressure - has this been an issue for you? You seem to have employed 2 agents with this in mind (celery + hawthorn), however, I have cited in many threads why starting hawthorn anything less than PRE-cycle makes it a pointless addition.

Liver Tabs? - as in true liver tabs or things that will aid your liver's coping with a PH/PS/AAS cycle? What exactly are we talking about here?

Saw Palmetto - I have offered up a lot in PCT:ACV articles here; alternatively, there is a lot of advice in this PCT forum on Saw Palmetto alone (most in the very recent threads. What is the standardization of your pills? Sterols, etc.... content?

Taurine + CoQ10 - fine...what is your rationale for employing them (many different potentially reasonable ones)? Just curious...don't like supplements to be put in without reason.

Rebound - assuming per package directions, fine...

CEE - suggested in PCT:ACV Part II that these "cell volumizing" type things are fine and may actually be used to "keep mass." Fine.

NO Explode - due to the caffeine, I would suggest that it may be a good and/or bad thing in the immediate post-cycle realm. Good: you may find energy kinda depleted - but the overall cycle you have chosen to me seems quite mild. Bad: Methylxanthines can via phosphodiesterase inhibition be a con to muscle growth or maintenance at this time, it is kind of like how you would go into a fat-loss cycle immediately into PCT...this would be a no, no.

[JrBirdMan]

I would use all or some of the following for natty test boost.
1. trib
2. zma
3. nettle

click my signature link for my list. I works quite well.

[dinoiii]

I would use all or some of the following for natty test boost.
1. trib
2. zma
3. nettle


I agree with the exception of nettle, until further research can be done during this time. We are doing some things in the lab as we speak here in post-cycle time frame. I have expressed on the forum what has happened preliminarily with some current brands.

ZMA or an equivalent is likely a year-round supplement for the bb or athlete.

Trib/Eurycoma products are becoming standard, which is a fine addition with little in the way of sides to date.

[88m]

I am going to take the NOW liver tabs just to be on the safe side?

I guess I could cut the celery.

Should I throw some trib or zma in there?

[dinoiii]

"Liver Tabs" - are we referencing this?

NOW Liver Detoxifier & Regenerator Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 3 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 30
Calories 10
Total Carbohydrate 1 g
Dietary Fiber 0.7 g
Vitamin C (from Ascorbyl Palmitate) 12 mg
Milk Thistle (Standardized Extract) (Seeds) (Silybum marianum)
(min. 80% Silymarin) 300 mg
Proprietary herbal-Nutrient Blend 250 mg
Artichoke (Cynara scolymus) (Leaf)
Beet (Beta vulgaris) (Leaf)
Black Radish (Raphanus sativus)
Bladderwrack (Fucus versiculosus) (Whole Plant)
Raspberry (Rubus idaeus) (Leaf)
Phosphatidyl Choline (from soy)
Pancreatic (Pancreatic Enzymes)
Blue Flag (Iris versicolor) (Root)
Cleavers (Galium aparine) (Aerial Parts)
L-Glutathione (Free-Form) (Reduced) 100 mg
N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) 100 mg
Bupleurum (4:1 Conc. Extract) (Root) (Bupleurum chinense) 100 mg
Grape Seed (Standardized Extract) (Vitis vinefera)
(min. 90% Polyphenols) 100 mg
Dandelion (4:1 Conc. Extract) (Root) (Taraxacum officinale) 100 mg
L-Carnitine Base 50 mg
Scute (4:1 Conc. Extract) (Root) (Sculellariae baicalensis) 50 mg
Pueraria (4:1 Conc. Extract) (Flower) (Pueraria thunbergiana) 50 mg
Schisandra (Fruit) (Schisandra chinensis) 50 mg
Barberry (Root Bark) (Berberis vulgaris 30 mg
Turmeric (Root) (Curcuma longa) 30 mg
L-Methionine 20 mg
Greater Celandine (4:1 Conc. Extract) (Whole Plant)
(Chelidonium majus) 10 mg


Milk Thistle and standardization is on par...NAC dose is very underpar for oral bioavailability. Would prefer SAMe but it is a little pricier.

[dinoiii]

I guess I could cut the celery.

Should I throw some trib or zma in there?

The celery is your choice...not sure it would make a difference one way or the other.

The ZMA should already be a part of your arsenal (people way too often underestimate these minerals and NO that which is found in a multi-vitamin is NOT ok!)

If then it is a choice between one or the other (trib vs. ZMA); seeing how ZMA is already a part of what you are taking virtually year-round, then we have your answer! ;) However, I am NOT suggesting this to "cover" you by any stretch - both would be preferred in my estimation, one covers for potential deficiency of nutrients important in its manufacturing and the like, the other (Trib) is more of a "boost."

[88m]

Cycle:
Days 1-5 1 capsule of Phera-Vol at 15mg once a day
Days 6-23 1 capsule of Phera-Vol at 15mg twice(30mg ed) a day
Days 24-28 1 capsule of Phera-Vol at 15mg three times(45mg ed) a day

PCT:
Hawthorne Berry 1000mg daily start @ wk.2.5
SAMe daily
CoQ10 60mg daily
Taurine 3-5g daily.
Rebound XT
ZMA


Am I good or am i over doing it and am i missing anything? Thanks ahead of time.

[dinoiii]

For a 28 day cycle, this is, in fact, likely sufficient with this compound (don't normally see too many issues with people running phera-compounds/clones, et al in mono runs, some estro suggestion at LONGER runs, but 28 days - nah - should be ok - where did you get your dosing style from? What diet do you plan on using, if you are to keep anything at all from a phera mono - you MUST keep diet TIGHT!!!).


If you do look for another item to incorporate - dinoiii is a fan of I3C...unsure what I am talking about - check out the Open Articles section under PCT: A Clinician's View (known around these parts as PCT:ACV) Parts II and III under "Estrogen Modulators."


Let me know how things work out for you. Good luck.

[88m]

Thanks dinoiii. Ive never run a cycle before and im looking for all the advice that I can get. My diet is looking to be arount 4000 calories a day give or take a few hundred.

[JrBirdMan]

dino what are your suggestions on natty test boost. I thought your articles suggested nettle?

[dinoiii]

88M:
You must be very careful with the diet during PCT as well. Caloric adjustments should be made accordingly and don't drastically cut cals if you feel you have put on a bit of "fat." If you want help with this - kick a typical diet out there and I will show you what I mean for this.

_______________________________________________


JrBirdMan:
One of the things (un)fortunately is that science doesn't stand still. During a trial with a nettle extract product on the market (not run during PCT at this time), hormonal profile changes were seen on this product...(Dec SHBG - as professed, but with Dec Tot T and Inc Free T)....one may suggest this particular hormonal profile not to be ideally run during PCT.

The jury is really still out on this particular product. I am not suggesting it to be bad, but a "recovery" time would imply that you wanted the HPTA to do just that and the profiles found preliminarily are rather interesting - but they do strike up many the questions with your average scientist.

Nonetheless.....
Ya know, prior to the evolution of more illustrious PCT regimes, the term "natty Test booster" was virtually non-existant. The nettle product does NOT necessarily fit the bill that this term describes (and one could likely justify leaving it out as easy as putting it in a PCT setup) and I have NOT necessarily eliminated it from PCT use...I make you guys aware of stuff as it becomes available to me.


D_

[JrBirdMan]

For PCT concerns though, what do you recommend for natural test booster?
Which ingredients are your favorites for natural test boost PCT program?
I did read your articles that I could find links too. Forgive me if you already answered this in an article I didn't get to read yet. I like the new picture also, is that you in the picture?
Also I'd like to be able to talk to you on an instant messenger sometime if at all possible.

[dinoiii]

I will answer this question more fully when company leaves my end tomorrow guys...


However, in the mean time - JrBirdMan gives me an idea - would there be interest in a chat-type event for DA board members.


Yes, the pic IS me...you can find an enlarged photo of this in the "Off Topic" section under celebrity-look a like thread ON PAGE 4! It is my quoted "possessed" 5am gym look! ;)

Thinking about having mezzogal shoot some photos in the gym tomorrow as well, but we'll see - there have been some camera issues.

Take care
Until tomorrow... for a thorough answer to your questions. Maybe someone can do a POLL to see if there is interest in the chat event??? Another forum has offered up some time for something similar, however, DA remains my "home" as Trans reminds me. :D

[88m]

I was talking to a guy at the gym and telling him my plans on my cycle. He said that I should try just some trib. or other test boost and wait before I do a cycle.

This got me wondering, how much would just a test booster alone do?

[bigboy67]

a "natural" test booster like trib will help a bit, but it wont be anything close to the "un-natural" test boost from PH's or AAS. it may be worth a try for you though if you arent planning to start a cycle really soon. you could even bracket a cycle with a natty test booster. that way you could see the effects the natty has, then feel the power of the PH, then use the natty test booster again to help your body rebound.

[dinoiii]

Now that companies are putting together the fact that protodioscin concentration is the rationale behind "superior" trib products...trib is a good starting place...however, be very selective in your approach to finding a company to stick by - there are some tried and true ones...ask around.

Eurycoma is a favorite of mine, but many people mess up the fact that this item has to be cycled within a week's time (i.e. - 5 on, 2 off, or other suggestions) AND from a manufacturer's standpoint, there is also an extraction issue by MANY companies and why some products in the aphrodisiac class do not seem to "work." Again, stick with a few select companies.

There are others, but these two are the current best 1-2 punch when all is controlled for.

Use them in the following manner:

Days 1-5: Eurycoma + Trib
Days 6-7: Trib
Days 8-12: Eurycoma + Trib
Day 13-14: Trib
Days 15-19: Eurycoma + Trib
Days 20-21:Trib
and so on....no longer than about 6 weeks max with a minimum of 4 weeks OFF completely.

If the appropriate concentrations of Trib actives are used, you will see early andorgenic potential for many users!!!

[88m]

So what about something like Biotest's Tribex. It contains both but would I cycle that 5 on and 2 off or just go for like 4 weeks or so?

And would you still need a pct since it is a natural booster?

[dinoiii]

Biotest's Tribex has only the trib, however, their Alpha Male has both.


My version of the Biotest cycle:

Days 1-5: Alpha Male
Days 6-7: Tribex
Day 8-12: Alpha Male
Day 13-14: Tribex
and so on...




"PCT" - if you are referencing an anti-estrogen...then this is VERY dependent...when you start the post-cycle era....you are actually fending off an increased estrogen:test ratio.

Think of it this way:
(1) While you are on cycle - you are giving yourself an OUTSIDE SOURCE (exogenous) of testosterone. This will over time shut down your natural production (it will take time though dependent upon the agent).
(2) When you stop giving yourself that outside source, you have taken away that test source and now your estogen levels are up from one of two ways:

(a) You have an increased conversion to estrogen through the enzyme aromatase
-or-
(b) You have an increased newly established baseline of estrogen from what had occurred while on cycle


At the very least, I would recommend an "estrogen metbolism modulator" - this is the I3C. One thing about the above picture is that I have watered it down....it is a lot more complex. One of the complexities is that ALL ESTROGEN is NOT CREATED EQUAL. Metabolites impart different action and you can actually control how the pathways are shunted with its use. 13C takes you down a "better" pathway and controls alternative ratios.

If you opt for an "aromatizable" compound for your entire cycle, then I recommend I3C's use throughout your cycle as well as during PCT. Does this make sense 88m? I am not sure if we are the same page, so I will stop and ask quick before proceeding...

[88m]

Yes it does but what exactly is I3C? Is it the estrogen metbaolism modulator?

[dinoiii]

Yes it does but what exactly is I3C? Is it the estrogen metbaolism modulator?

I3C = Indole 3 Carbinol
I reference you to the appropriate sections of PCT:ACV Parts II and III in "Open Articles" section.

Yes, I3C is the estrogen metbolism modulator...see the articles for further details. I went pretty in-depth there.