Safflower oil- How does it rate

[Vladdy]

I'm looking for a cheaper alternative to fish and flax oil. How does Safflower oil rate?

[bigpetefox]

Want cheap? Try either olive oil or Enova.. Just as cheap? Try coconut oil, but pre-workout is best 'cause MCT's can still make you fat if you don't readily burn them..

[Vladdy]

Thanks Pete

Great post on glucose management!

[bigpetefox]

Thanks brother.. ;)

[SwollOnIron]

I use it all the time. Not same ratio of omega 3 as fish or flax, but still a good clean oil IMO. Enova and olive are good too - I taste wise (in shakes) safflower all the way.

[Vladdy]

Thanks swollen!

[dinoiii]

Hey Vladdy,

What are your intentions for use of safflower oil?
For instance, are you planning on dumping it in your protein shakes or using it to cook? I am content with its replacement of Flax as I have suggested in many other threads - flax boasts a PRO-estrogenic potential...however, as a replacement of fish oil (on a gram for gram basis of EPA and DHA) - it doesn't even compare.

Additionally, I hope there are no intentions to use this for cooking. Polyunsaturates are VERY sensitive to heat. This means too that you should watch the manufacturing process of your particular oil of choice.

79% of safflower oil is a polyunsaturate...but when comparing it to fish oil, we will break it down a bit more concrete for you to make an educated decision.

Safflower's polyunsaturates = predominate Omega-6 (linoleic)...in its cis form, it is a good runner for burning "BROWN" fat, but I am not 100% certain this is what you are looking for in it. Also remember the natural oils are more a racemic mix (this means you get the trans isomer - not to be confused with the DA poster who seconds as my "apprentice" ;) - as well).

Comparatively the polyunsaturates in fish and flax are Omega-3, but much of what happens to flax is part of a conversion process. Flax needs to be converted into DHA and EPA.


For absolute shits 'n giggles though....let's break it down for the non-science types:

cis-linoleic acid ---> Gamma-linoleic acid (GLA, you have likley seen this nomenclature thrown around) ---> brown fat induction of caloric expenditure (don't get excited ... it really hasn't panned out in the literature to make appreciable effects on overall bdy composition via this route...what the research would tell you is that when you continually stimulate the brown fat, it allows you to maintain your basal weight with less effort, it does NOT stimulate additional weight loss above and beyond what would allow maintenance).
---NOTE: the above model, while hypothesized ONLY happens in about 60% of people, the remainder tend to be "non-responsive" (there's all sorts of hypotheses as to why this is...but, nothing really worth posting here because they remain VERY hypothetical in nature)





Dinoiii's Recommendations:

Daily:

Polyunsaturates
(1) Omega-3s: minimum 3 grams combined EPA + DHA (easiest from fish oil...shouldn't cost too much really overall...you can get 1000 tablet bottles for about $50)
(2) Omega-6's: safflower is fine, but I still say CLA is overall better - get a Tonalin brand...too much suggestion of proper isomer standardization otherwise....

Monounsaturates
(1) Olive Oil: real cheap, extra virgin preferred for many manufacturing reasons
(2) Nuts: Preference List for health benefits: 1. Walnuts, 2. Pecans, 3. Almonds (avoid cashews!) - should be a staple of the bodybuilding diet
(3) Avocados

Saturates
(1) Coconut (MCT source)

[dinoiii]

So, to further support my above recommendations for CLA vs. Safflower seeing how this was the suggestion of the thread:

Study:

40 overweight adults 3.4 g per day over 6 months of CLA or Safflower (safflower was considered the "placebo" in this study).

CLA group: DEC 2.2 pounds body fat
Safflower group: INC 1.5 pounds body fat

Points:
(1) Subjects were NOT even on a caloric-restricted diet OR controlled exercise program
(2) Duration was over the holiday season where many people have 2-5 pound weight increase


Watras AC, Buchholz AC, Close RN, Schoellar DA. (2006). Conjugated Linoleic Acid Reduces Body Fat and Prevents Seasonal Weight Gain Among Overweight Adults. 2006 Experimental Biology Meeting Abstracts. The FASEB Journal; 20(4): Abstract ID 386.9

[B-natural]

so you support CLA dinoiii? what would you think would be an appropriate does for someone around 200lbs, and how long will it remain effective before having to stop usage

[dinoiii]

Extract from Anabolic Bytes in Open Articles


Q: I want to take your advice about switching out of Flax oil, and take more of a different EFA. You had mentioned CLA at 10 g a day. I was wondering if any CLA at 10g a day would be better or would be looking into a product like Sesamin or Sesamax better suite fat loss and muscle retention on a low-carb diet?

Thanks Dinoii

A: CLA is a funny molecule that consists of a number of various isomers – of which, we only consider a couple biologically active, and have focused our research attention. I have discussed on the forum in numerous posts how this molecule’s various isomers are extracted. The 10 grams per day that I suggest is not so focused on the total tally of CLA but the total concentration of biologically active isomers adjusted for volume of distribution (body composition of the average 200-pound bodybuilder).

The “conjugated” portion of this nutrient’s name refers to two double chemical bonds within its structure. The location of the bonds dictates a given isomer’s specific designation. For example, the cis-9, trans-11 CLA isomer (also known as rumenic acid, or c9t11) is the most common isomer found in ruminant-derived foods, and is believed to be one of the most biologically active isomers. Trans-10, cis-12 CLA (t10c12) is present in far smaller concentrations, but may play an especially important role in modulating health. These two isomers are considered the most biologically important forms of CLA for human health. Most commercially available CLA supplements include a roughly equal mixture of both at a rough 70-80% concentration. It is a good idea to look for Tonalin brand (potentially Clarinol as a second choice) to simplify what you are looking for.

You ask an interesting question and I want to make sure I am certain what you are asking before replying definitively. If you are asking if the use of Sesamin-type products in addition to CLA would be a good idea, then I am inclined to say yes. If you are asking if the use of Sesamin-type products should replace CLA, then I am inclined to say no.

Sesame seed lignans in particular are beneficial. Studies show that sesame lignans, including sesamin and sesaminol, enhance vitamin E’s absorption and availability, improve lipid profiles, and help normalize blood pressure. Animal studies show that sesame lignans enhance the burning of fat. One study demonstrated that sesame increases the activity of several liver enzymes that break down fatty acids. Optimizing the liver’s fat-burning capacity may promote fat loss and may account for sesame’s lipid-lowering effect.

Sesame lignans also boost the weight-loss effects of CLA. Japanese scientists studied whether dietary manipulations could enhance CLA’s effects in reducing body fat. They found that sesamin helped stimulate the loss of adipose tissue. Researchers think that sesame lignans increase CLA’s effects by stimulating a pathway of fatty acid breakdown called beta-oxidation.

Additional support would lend to an increased synergism, yet still, with the addition of guarana to this potent duo rather than ingesting any of the two products (CLA and/or Sesamin) alone. Very few companies take advantage of this – there are a few exceptions to this, however.

[dinoiii]

Other extracts from DA posts:

***Tonalin vs. Clarinol***

Tonalin roughly 65-85% of the two isomers

vs.

Clarinol roughly 55-75% of the two isomers



***Where to find quality CLA research***

Since the early eighties there has been a steady stream of publications, which has grown exponentially by the late nineties. CLA research began with the anti-cancer effects of CLA and soon expanded to other areas of human health. Studies are now showing that CLA may have potential in the prevention of a wide range of human medical conditions Additionally, CLA may enhance the activity of the immune system. A dedicated CLA web site from the University of Wisconsin records all CLA publications, which keeps the CLA scientific community well informed of each others work.

http://www.wisc.edu/fri/clarefs.htm


***And then there's dinoiii giving some odjeda***

Must check out the thread for full info:
http://www.discountanabolics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2302&highlight=Tonalin+Clarinol

[Vladdy]

Dinoiii,


MY intentions were to research cheaper altenrative to flax oil for my shakes. Definitely appreciate the input.

I ended up buying the flax anyway, but see the reasons to look at CLA, Thanks!

[dinoiii]

Sorry,

Safflower was in the first post and heading of the thread - we therefore were talking what it compared to I thought.

Thats why I posted the CLA vs. Safflower head-to-head trial results showing CLA superior to it. Fish and Flax aren't of the Omega-6 class, but Omega-3 (well it can get a little more complex than that but I am sure you can see where I am coming from).

My rationale for offering such in-depth support for CLA was a stem-off question asked within the thread.

As far as I am concerned, Flax is NOT a good source for a lot of cited reasons in other threads but also the PCT article series (not sure if you have read it...many have trouble getting through the whole thing as is), but really Flax is PRO-estrogenic is the nitty gritty point that needs to be considered so much so that it has actually shown to be deleterious in women with ER (+) breast cancer. Therefore, I kinda think flax to be a moot point.

Some quality fish oil brands with good concentration of EPA and DHA can be EXTREMELY CHEAP!

What many ask....would you throw out any flax oil that you had? Nah, but it may be a good idea to use a dose or two (at most) sparingly over a 24-hour period. And then from here on, I would really invest in Fish for Omega 3's, CLA for Omega 6's and so forth (re-visit the post).


Sorry if this wasn't what you were looking for. I tried.

[Vladdy]

IT was still goood though...

and interesting points on Flax Vs fish oil.