Dinoii, I have a couple of ?'s

[UNCfan1]

Hey I was reading ur PCT article again, why does SAMe cause stomach problems, is it only when taken to much or what? Also I may have skipped over it, but whats better ALC or L-caritine(sp). Isn't ALC absorbed better? Anyway thanks in advance.

[dinoiii]

Hey there UNCfan1,

I will answer your questions below in turn:

(1) SAMe:

While I did in fact suggest in my article that gastrointestinal side effects should be considered when using SAMe, this was one of those things to include for simple completion's sake so I hope it not to have been misconstrued as common. SAMe is in effect, rather safe ... In some studies, SAMe induced fewer or less serious side effects than placebo! For example, in a double-blind study with 734 people comparing SAMe with the NSAID Naproxen and placebo, 10 people withdrew from the study due to side effects from SAMe, compared to 13 from placebo and 17 from Naproxen side effects. But side effects did in fact exist and they were predominantly reported as GI.

But I will tell you why I did list GI sides in the tox section.

In a double blind study using SAMe to treat depression, there were five reported side effects from SAMe (three, however were in one patient) versus six reported due to placebo. The most commonly reported side effects are gastrointestinal- primarily heartburn, nausea and stomachache. However, the GI effects seem to be mediated through the brain- they are NOT the result of direct GI tract irritation.Indeed, SAMe actually inhibits and protects against GI lining damage and irritation apparently through formation of non-protein sulphur compounds (e.g. glutathione) in the GI lining.

(2) L-Carnitine versus ALCAR:

An answer to this question depends upon a couple of things. First, how we are defining "better." I think the two compounds can, in effect, produce VERY different results. As I did state in the article, there have been NO phenomenal head-to-head trials or anything. So - it comes down to pure "efficacy" in the realms of what you want - and actually basic L-Carnitine does the job (confirmed by study backing). There may be something to be said about ALCAR in increasing testosterone levels and/or helping in the realm of senility, but remember there is a connection between dementia and various brain disorders and decreased T levels - so these two may be the same effect ultimately, however, there is also support for the acetyl group to help in the formation of acetylcholine. For the most part, I would likely consider whichever you could get the better deal on and currently L-carnitine will likely run you less money for heavier dosing.

Summary:
L-carnitine ran at a couple grams a day could give you liver, heart, kidney support, and be important for people to regain fertility (in its effects on sperm - see PCT:ACV III for more here). That's a lot of bang for the buck. However, if you want to use it for mental effects and/or testosterone-promotion ALCAR may be superior. Perhaps, either a combo (for those that can afford it) or a follow-up (L-car - couple grams a day during PCT, FOLLOWED by a couple weeks of ALCAR......ALCAR is likely not superior to other test boosters on the market anyway).


Hopefully this has answered your questions. If not, UNCfan...you know I am always willing. Just give another hollar. ;)

[UNCfan1]

Thanks alot Dinoii, I read before and read ur PCT, that SAMe was really safe. I just saw the GI problems and kinda freaked, see I have a huge fear of throwing up, not sure why, I haven't since I was 7 yrs old. Anyway I know from ur posts that its better than Milk Thistle, so I will go with it and thanks for clearing that up. Thanks for the info on L-carnitine, I just might go for a combo of the 2. If I have anymore ?'s I will post them here.

[CHOCOLATE THUNDER]

hey dinoii thanks you have helped me too. god bless

[dinoiii]

Hey guys,

thanks - I am simply happy someone is asking the ?'s to begin with. Knowledge offers true empowerment so to speak. I am happy you guys found what you were looking for in the answers provided - never be afraid to give a hollar...if I can, in fact, help - I would be glad to in any way possible.

D_

[UNCfan1]

Hey dinoii let me know if this is over kill on vitamins and minerals.

Optimum Super Antioxidants
Vitamin A: 25,000 IU
?(as Betatene?natural mixed cartenoids)
Vitamin C: 1000 mg
?(as ascorbic acid)
Vitamin E: 400 IU
?(as d-alpha tocopherol succinate)
Folic acid: 400 mcg
Selenium: 200 mcg
Alpha-carotene: 490 mcg
Zeaxanthin: 94 mcg
Cryptoxanthin: 114 mcg
Lutein: 72 mcg

Now B 100( B-complex
Riboflavin (vitamin B-2) 100mg 5880%
PABA 100mg
Pantothenic Acid (as calcium pantothenate) 100mg 1000%
Vitamin B-12 (as cyanocobalamin) 100mcg 1670%
Vtiamin B-6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride) 100mg 5000%
Choline (Bitartrate) 100mg
Inositol 100mg
Folic Acid 400mcg 100%
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 100mg 500%
Thiamin (vitamin B-1) 100mg 6670%
Biotin 100mcg 30%

I also will be taking in 4g of Vitamin C, 800IU of Vitamin E, Centrum Multi, and ZMA.

My guess its not overkill.

[dinoiii]

Hey there UNCfan

I would only comment on the Vitamin E...being fat soluble, it may not be necessary to get 800 IU + 400 IU from the "Super Antioxidant" product you mention + the tally likely in the centrum multi (the multi may not exactly be cost-efficient NOR nutrient-efficient as I have explained the latter in many of my other posts, but per orthomolecular rules, not necessarily overkill). Certain antioxidants at too high levels actually turn over and become PRO-oxidants. There is kind of an optimization curve - not saying you surpass it with these tallies per se...however, the fat-soluble ones may become an issue easier.

As far as B's and C - it is VERY hard to overdose on them....Vitamin C follows suit and can in fact become PRO-oxidant, HOWEVER, its water-soluble status makes this less an issue and why I have commented the way that I have. I am not sure 4 grams + 1 gram + whatever is in the multiple is necessary, but overdosing becomes harder if you are spreading your doses.

Which brings me to my final point. I have assumed you are taking the Super Antioxidant product at a different time from your other doses (i.e. - divided amongst the day), am I correct?

[UNCfan1]

Yeah I had planned on taking the multi in the morning, the B-complex a few hours later and the SA either after my workout or a few hours after that. I assumed this wouldn't be overkill esp with the vitamins B and C since they don't stay in ur system like E, but I figured with my Weight and intense workouts it would depelete these nutrients. Am I wrong about that, cause I know instense training depeletes Zinc and Mag. Thanks again for helping out.

[dinoiii]

Couple things based on your post:

(1) Wait until a minimum of 2 hours (preferably 4) to take your SA product. Antioxidants in the immediate post-workout period could actually hault progress in your program.

(2) I would hold off on some of the Vit E. It is going to build up in the liver - again, perhaps not the biggest concern in the immediate period, however, over time...this could prove to be an issue.

[UNCfan1]

I remember u or trans or someone saying that about taking antioxidants right after training. I will also hold off on the vitamin E, thanks alot Dinoii.

Oh one more real quick question. I love my smokeless tobacoo, I dip copenhagen and I know how bad it is for me(I am really trying to quit lol) but how is it on ur BP, I know cigs are really bad but what about Smokeless Tobacco. I know it constricts ur blood vessels which isn't good, also I read somewhere that it has a neg. effect on cholestrol is there any thruth to that?

[dinoiii]

hehe - ask the doctor questions about smoking or chew or the like and well...


you get a rant (note: not meant to be a lecture - your answer is included, I just get frustrated to see people smoke and the equivalent invest a lot of money (i.e. - through supplements and the like) into building a better body - likely for not when the number one cause of death on many accounts - no matter the vehicle (see later) is in effect tobacco product):


There are 30 chemicals in tobacco smoke that cause cancer (obviously there are over 100 chemicals that could be included in that list but the associations have never truly panned out in the research and I cannot lie to you despite how much stronger it would make my case - but hey 30 is still 30), and smokeless tobacco products contain 10 times the amount of nitrosamine as cigarettes. Smokeless products are NOT safe alternatives to smoking. Smokeless users risk a 50-fold increase in cheek and gum cancer!!!

As far as answering your question: Nicotine causes stress on your cardiovascular system (includes vasculature and subsequently the pressure of blood flowing through them - so, yes it would have an effect on blood pressure). Think of it this way - ultimate oxidation of the vasculature (hopefully aided to a degree by the HUGE antioxidant doses you are using) can lead to damage to the vessel and subsequent cholesterol plaque formation to accumulation of cholesterol molecules at the injured vessel sites (especially when using lipid-altering PH/PS/AAS) with subsequent changes on blood pressure due to vessel diameter DECREASES. So it INDIRECTLY affects both cholesterol and blood pressure through PRO-oxidation effects on the blood vessel. Make sense?

Now, it doesn’t matter which vehicle (smoking or using smokeless tobacco) you use to get the nicotine into the body. Nicotine content: 1 can of dip = 3 packs of cigarettes (90-150 mg of nicotine) Smokers may resort to using smokeless tobacco to get a larger, faster, more frequent dose of nicotine. Usual users likely spend a lot of money that could be better shifted toward supplements and/or other exogenous substances without deleterious consequence for your health status - especially in order to practice what you preach - a life of being fit and living long enough to enjoy the better body you have in fact created!

Again, not meant to be a lecture - but did you really expect a different answer from me? You can research it over all though and will see I did not simply place scare tactics in this post - this is real information. Ultimately it is your choice about what to place in your body and I do share this belief --> but I prefer it if your "trying to quit" statement becomes one without the attached "lol." You'd get all the support from my direction if this is a true desire.

[UNCfan1]

Wow I realized all of those things, but really didn't beleive it. I really am trying to stop, I send $5 a day(stupid I know). I knew its effect on BP but didn't really realize how bad it was on cholestrol. I really thank u for all of the help here Dinoii and taking time out of ur busy schedule to answer my questions. I did the "lol" casue I have been saying that for a few months now and my wife fusses at me, which she needs too, anyway thanks again.

[dinoiii]

Just didn't want it to seem like I was ragging on you. I am sure you get that enough. Schedule is very busy, but I manage somehow.

[bigboy67]

yikes, i have been trying to quit my Skoal addiction for a while now. i started chewing when i stopped smoking. the kicker is that i smoked about a half a pack a day, and now i chew a full tin everyday. so if my math is right, i have actually INCREASED my nicotine intake by 500% !!! i am such a moron. and you're right dinoiii, it is silly to work so hard at improving your body all while destroying it with tobacco. i have never been into drugs, stopped drinking on a dime, but i have been fighting with nicotine for about 3 years trying to quit. it really boils down to wanting it bad enough, cuz if i did i would put in the energy needed to stop. on top of that, i get treated like i murdered by these do-good hippies everytime i throw in a dip.