Fenugreek

[NemisisX7]

I found this article after seeing fenugreek in a few supps. I was curious as to its purpose and after reading this I'm now wondering WTF?!?!?! How is this herb benefiting men? Dinoiii, if you could chime in on this that would be great.



Fenugreek seed is widely used as a galactagogue (milk producing agent) by nursing mothers to increase inadequate breast milk supply. It has also been used to increase breast size. It can be found in capsule form in many health food stores.[citation needed]

In India it is mixed with yogurt and used as a conditioner for hair. It is also one of the ingredients in the making of Khakhra, a type of bread. It is used ininjera/taita, a type of bread unique to Ethiopian and Eritrean cuisine. The word for fenugreek in Amharic is abesh, which is also often used as a natural herbal medicine in the treatment of diabetes. It is also sometimes used as an ingredient in the production of clarified butter (Amharic: qibé, Ethiopian and Eritrean Tigrinya: tesme), which is similar to Indian ghee. In Turkey, fenugreek gives its name, "çemen", to a hot paste used in pastirma.

Recently fenugreek has found its way into some bodybuilding supplements as it is suggested it may help stimulate testosterone production, although there is little evidence for this.

[jram]

I take Fenugreek in my PCT regiment and will take it again during my next PCT, starting 10/16 and will be upramping 600 to 1800mg daily. Fenugreek supports blood sugar and insulin levels.

:cool:

[NemisisX7]

I know it has proven health benefits for men and women. I'm just wondering why it would be in a supp. I guess you can get its benefits in smaller doses without getting estrogen like effects. I apologize for my ignorance on this subject.

[jram]

Hey NemisisX7;

There's no apology needed, we're all here to learn. Fenugreek is also considered an antioxidant but, there are cautions as with all supplements. As with individuals with allergies, Fenugreek can cause diarrhea, dizziness and can cause a possible reduction in potassium and blood sugar levels. Asthmatics may also experience difficulty in breathing when using Fenugreek.

As you said, Dinoiii may be able expand on this subject even more.

:cool:

[Trans_Isomer]

Check out dinoiii's PCT articles, info on fenugreek is within

[dinoiii]

PCT: ACV III and 1/2 specifically designates an area for Fenugreek.


Overall thoughts of such products: there is actually good support here for blood sugar control and studies do, in fact, support its use in such a way - however, as was also pointed out - Testosterone is a no-go and may even be estrogenic in higher concentration. One company I am aware of is actually testing various doses as we speak and its effect on Estrogen (and no, it is not mine).


One could continue to postulate whether such a thing like 4-OH isoleucine would have similar effects - of which I am not familiar with to date.

[NemisisX7]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the repsonces. I just don't know if theres enough research on it to be putting it supps. already.

[dinoiii]

Hey, there's not enough research on a lot of things. That probably shouldn't be the reason we don't attempt their use because it may be many a decade before someone "dreams the research up in the night."

What scares me in particular is when negative suggestive data comes back and it still is marketed - this is becoming more commonplace.

[NemisisX7]

Sorry I've been out of it lately. No sleep. Curse this stack! Oh I love it though. Anyway, I guess the real question is can you get all the pros and minimal/no cons at low doses? BCS has it in their cratine supp. and I know why they put it in there.

[dinoiii]

Again, we have to be "certain" that the cons are in fact cons. I know that sounds like a BS statement - but its very true.

This is the problem with a study - for each one that shows one result, you have to weigh it against the one that shows a positive. I think the particular company testing it right now is pretty stand up and will, myself anxiously await their results.

If we were to be wary of all that could potentially do harm, we wouldn't ingest a single supplement. I would probably suggest to proceed with the minimal dose suggested in the supplement suggested and monitor for problem. Should any arise, you could always cease taking it.

[BigLifter]

Here is an article about fenugreek from findarticles.com
2 | Fenugreek The fenugreek herb is native to southern Europe, the Mediterranean region and western Asia. It has numerous health benefits, including increased libido, elevated testosterone and increased insulin release. As with Tribulus terrestris, this herb contains a high amount of furostanolic saponins. Therefore, fenugreek extract works in a manner similar to Tribulus--elevating testosterone via increases in the amount of LH and DHEA the body produces. Some bodybuilders report having a better appetite when taking fenugreek extract--a great benefit for hardgainers.

DOSE | Take 500-2,000 mg per day of furostanolic saponins from fenugreek or in combination with other saponin ingredients.

BigLifter

[Dizzle1]

The Best of the Rest

Fenugreek

“Cliff Notes” Summary:

There are many reports of this particular substance having the potential to uh, hem..."bring the boys back" as I have heard it so whimsically described. The efficacy studies show no such support, however, in regards to this claim. IN FACT, I CHALLENGE THAT THEY SHOW EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE WITH SUPPORTING RATIONALE BELOW!!!

So, is it useless during PCT? Well, the studies do show ideal glucose management provided the fenugreek extract has a 60-80% galactomannan content - but this is ideal to add in a delayed manner (much of which I will address in part VII - I'm sorry, but it simply does get this complex...is it a wonder people don't "respond" to things that truly have backing?).

So, what the heck do studies really show:
(1) The galactomannan ratio of galactose and mannose in fenugreek reduced urinary sugar levels of participants by as much as 54% which has been speculated to lower the glycemic index of food.
(2) Decreased insulin response to food
(3) Helps maintain normal serum glucose levels (by slowing down the absorption rate of carbohydrates <see #2>, thereby lowering the insulin requirement. Hypoglycemic effects of fenugreek observed in animal studies have been associated with a fraction that contains the testa and endosperm of the defatted seeds, called the A subfraction. These effects have NOT been observed with the lipid extracts. Hypoglycemic effects have been attributed to several mechanisms: Sauvaire, et al. demonstrated that the unique amino acid 4-hydroxyisoleucine in fenugreek seeds increases glucose-induced insulin release in vitro in human and rat pancreatic cells. This amino acid appeared to act only on pancreatic beta cells, as somatostatin (delta cells) and glucagon (alpha cells) were not altered in the study. In human studies, fenugreek reduced the area under the curve (AUC) for plasma glucose and increased the number of insulin receptors via an unclear mechanism. Fenugreek seeds have also been postulated to exert hypoglycemic effects by stimulating glucose-dependent insulin release by beta cells or via inhibition of alpha-amylase and sucrase activity. Without significant ingestion of simple carbohydrates, the benefits of this supplement can be largely debated..
(4) Inhibition of the absorption of fats. In animal studies, fenugreek has been found to lower triglycerides, total cholesterol, and LDL levels. These effects may be due to saponins, which is transformed in the gastrointestinal tract to sapogenins. Sapogenins increase biliary cholesterol secretion, potentially leading to lower serum levels. DID YOU READ THAT ALL YEE “BRINGING THE BOYS BACK” SUPPORT CLUB MEMBERS - decreasing cholesterol LOWERS SUBSTRATE FOR ANDROGEN PRODUCTION ... DELAYING UHHHH “BOY INFLATION.”
(5) Increased sense of fullness. This couldn’t come at a better time as caloric adjustments need be made - but this is why it is required in a delayed manner as you should remain somewhat hypERcaloric initially.

http://www.discountanabolics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2588