Prior steroid use/abuse

[Quick]

Hello, this is my first time posting. I wanted to let you guys know that I have been reading some of the posts and they caused me to rethink taking some of the prohormones until I get more strict with my diet and lifestyle. Thank you, I actually ordered some and I'll wait until everything is in order before I take them. It's very tempting because most of the guys at the gym are taking them with almost no regard to diet, health and a host of others.
I need to ask a question that is sort of off the subject.
My brother in law, years ago was taking injections and also other pill forms of steroids at the same time with no regard to PCT. His buddies got him into it and none of them were taking anything but steroids including therapy for the liver.
He finally got off of them and he has always had a very thin frame but shortly after taking them he gained weight big time. Including a puffy and soft chest and fat all around the waist area. Years have past and he has been dieting and jogging 4-5 times a week for 3-4 years. Nothing seems to work for him. He has lost a few pounds but not much. I was just reading some of the posts and it caused me to wonder if his internal environment is wacky. Maybe his estrogen levels are to high or something? What do you guys think or suggest?

[dinoiii]

Focus on hypOadrenalism sections of my PCT articles. If he should ever choose to have blood work, with the central adipose deposition, I would make certain a serum cortisol is thrown in or a 24-hour urinary collection...a pain maybe, but I have seen this way to frequent - trust me.

Again - I lobby for 2 weeks to use of cortisol-suppressing agents because there is simply a proper balance between catabolic and anabolic hormones that MUST be considered. See Fat-Burners during PCT thread - while contested, I offer good rationale to why we see this in that particular thread!

[Quick]

Thanks so much for the reply! Please in plain english if you can?? I'm not very knowledgable on these topics.

[dinoiii]

I will reference you to the two posts I am speaking of. When you read them - I will then address particulars.

(1) PCT: ACV III
found at - http://www.discountanabolics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2382

excerpt:
"ANTI-CATABOLICS

7-oxo DHEA (3-acetoxyandrostat-5-ene-7,17-dione) / 7-ketoDHEA

DHEA finds conversion into some 150 metabolites (that we are currently aware of), each with unique actions within the body. One of the reasons my aforementioned comments about the mother-compound DHEA on how I think it is a prohormone that should in fact be banned are worrisome is due to the likely subsequent banning of potentially-useful metabolites. In the early get-go, 7-oxo, TM’d as 7-keto products seem to hold the most promise supported by the literature. I like its seemingly absent conversion to estrogen or testosterone and its anti-catabolic properties (which are purported to control and/or reduce body fat.

The rationale supplied for use of this compound in the post-cycle era, however, through cortisol suppression, I have never understood effectively as stated in Part II and in various posts. Exogenous androgen introduction tends to universally suppress the adrenal gland via feedback inhibition of ACTH. Recall that ACTH subsequently imparts action on production of various adrenal hormones, in this case cortisol being one. For how this effect is seen here, I offer the following “simplified” model:

Step 1: “On” cycle = exogenous androgen introduction, not only leading to subsequent endogenous shutdown of the Leydig cell production of testosterone through feedback inhibition of the pituitary’s production of LH, but also a negative feedback that mimics adrenal cortical (zona reticularis) overproduction of androgenic outflow offering negative feedback tie-in to ACTH pathways.

Step 2: “Off” cycle (PCT) = cessation of exogenous androgen introduction in a still suppressed ACTH (albeit partial) environment (hypOadrenalism) and subsequent low-level cortisol production, amongst other adrenal byproducts.

Step 3: ACTH regeneration BEFORE LH regeneration (due to partial vs. complete negative feedback mechanisms). The question we set out to answer was when this becomes clinically significant. The answer appears to be more complex than the time I would like to offer here, however, I will summarize a few key points:

(1) Half-life of the exogenous compound seems to play a role on ACTH regeneration (which may seem “common sensical”, but how many automatically have assumed immediate catabolism?).
(2) Many factors (dietary as well as other) seem to impart a role on anti-catabolic nature of post-cycle time frame (again, perhaps another “common-sensical” point, but how often is it seen that people go from a hypERcaloric state while “on” cycle into a state of immediate hypOcalorism?).
(3) Another in-house study has given us some answers into regeneration-time frames. Oveall, the 3-week mark post-cycle appears preliminarily to be a time of universal cortisol up-regulation. The first two weeks are assumed to remain in suppression almost independent of the type of agent used. Use of substances such as 7-oxo / 7-keto compounds seems better left out of post-cycle planning for that immediate 2-week time frame.

[author’s note: complete in-house study results will too appear in upcoming book release!]" - dinoiii

-and-

(2) Fat-burners during PCT thread:
found at - http://www.discountanabolics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2770

Excerpt from thread:
"In PCT, we have compared various post-cyclers and people that have gone with AND without (same individual) and the differences on a hormonal homeostatic basis are sound and verified. I think it dangerous to get into continuing realms of hypOadrenalism, because if you do NOT let the feedback on cortisol die out, you have the potential for one of two things:

(1) While you will remain suppressed from a cortisol standpoint, you risk crossover feedback and a risk of a very modest adrenal insufficiency state

-why should I care? this particular state will dictate fat deposition. It is funny because just as people bastardize cortisol and its "evil" catabolic effects...the essence of catabolism also surrounds adipose catabolism. post-cycle is a time when you are already going through metabolic changes for the negative...there is no reason to promote (even potentially) the realm of weight gain, etc... You would see physique enhancement if done properly. If not done properly on the other hand, you risk a post-cycle crash (but in a different sense) just as if you had gone it alone.

(2) Alternatively, an administration at this time has direct effects on corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG - also called transcortin). To meet cortisol demands in a hypOadrenal state, the level of CBG DECREASES allowing the activity level of cortisol to take over (so to speak)...This will prove itself to also be contradictory to the state we are trying to promote.




I would say to people that report "successful" PCT w/ such a product have likely never tried going it without them. As one poster on this board suggested...3 cycles (defined as what, I don't know) and no PCT to accompany ANY of them and nothing happened. "Success" is a perception!!! There are intimate goals of PCT - hormonal homeostasis is the biggest! Nonetheless, I digress.

There is certainly something to be said about being savvy in your use of supplements versus all out judicious - which NEVER proves itself to be a good thing, especially anything endocrinie!" - dinoiii

[dinoiii]

Any questions after reading these posts? - let me know...

[Quick]

Hello dinoiii. My Prior post:My brother in law, years ago was taking injections and also other pill forms of steroids at the same time with no regard to PCT. His buddies got him into it and none of them were taking anything but steroids including therapy for the liver.
He finally got off of them and he has always had a very thin frame but shortly after taking them he gained weight big time. Including a puffy and soft chest and fat all around the waist area. Years have past and he has been dieting and jogging 4-5 times a week for 3-4 years. Nothing seems to work for him. He has lost a few pounds but not much. I was just reading some of the posts and it caused me to wonder if his internal environment is wacky. Maybe his estrogen levels are to high or something? What do you guys think or suggest?
Thank you for refering me to your prior posts on this subject. You told me to get back to you once I read them.
Ok, I learned I think, here it goes:
According to you prior post an adrenal insufficiency could be what my brother in-law is suffering from? I did read mention of some products such as 7-keto/oxo type pdts/sns reduce xt post cycle?? Is there anything else that I could be missing?
My question: Could his body still be in a hormonal inbalance after all these years?? Could the lack of PCT still be causing a crossover feedback in regard to adrenal insufficiency? OR AM I STILL CLUELESS AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M SAYING?
Thanks again,
Quick

[dinoiii]

just bumping this to the top as I had missed it and was not sure if I ever answered in the form of a personal response (i.e. - PM, email, etc...). This is where my inability to traverse all the forums comes in - my apologies if this has caused inconvenience.