Methyl 1-Test: non-aromatizing compound?

[USFstud]

I am about to do a weak cycle of Methyl 1-Test with PharmaGenX Methyl 1-TestaGenX Magnum -- where I start at half the recommended dose and then in weeks 2-3 of my cycle I will take the full doseage.

In alot of the synopses that I have been reading about products containing methyl 1-Test companies will claim that this compound does not "aromatize". From what I understand (correct me if im wrong), it is this aromatization pathway that leads to increased estrogen levels and inevitably gyno?

So, since Methyl 1-Test does not aromatize, is there really a need for a PCT like 6 OXO which is a "proven aromatase inhibitor"??

Thanks for your helps guys

[dinoiii]

Yes!

The increased (overcompensating) endogenous production of your OWN T levels is what you are protecting from aromatizing during PCT in this case, NOT M1T.

There is no need for an anti-aromatizing cpd. DURING your cycle UNLESS including a cpd. like 4AD, etc...

[USFstud]

So obtaining the side-effect of gyno is not a threat with M-1T, correct?

And if I understood you properly, it sounds like taking a PCT is more directed at keeping one's gains after doing a cycle and maintaining high T levels? Because after the cycle is complete whatever endogenous Testosterone produced by the body is natural; correspondingly, if some of this testosterone is aromatized it's a natural process.

Or, is the PCT also used just to speed up the process of having your body reach a homeostasis with T levels? -- (including getting your balls back to the normal size)
If thats the case, I dont see where a PCT would be necessary, because who cares if it takes a week or two longer to be normal again.

Thanks again for your info.

[wedgylx]

So obtaining the side-effect of gyno is not a threat with M-1T, correct?

And if I understood you properly, it sounds like taking a PCT is more directed at keeping one's gains after doing a cycle and maintaining high T levels? Because after the cycle is complete whatever endogenous Testosterone produced by the body is natural; correspondingly, if some of this testosterone is aromatized it's a natural process.

Or, is the PCT also used just to speed up the process of having your body reach a homeostasis with T levels? -- (including getting your balls back to the normal size)
If thats the case, I dont see where a PCT would be necessary, because who cares if it takes a week or two longer to be normal again.

Thanks again for your info.

Dinoiii, correct me if I'm wrong here.....
There are different types of gyno. I dont think its very possible to see "bitch tits" however there are other types of gyno which lead to lactation.

[dinoiii]

Ok, where to begin...this is one of the reasons I like to not post until I have set aside appropriate time for an adequate response.


Because you asked Wedg and I feel it relates to and would lead into discussion of what USFstud has posted, I will attack both posts in that manner.

Rob: in the office, gyno is more often a histologic diagnosis (70% of men), however, clinically apparent gyno has been noted in only about 1% of men. 40% of autopsies show histologic evidence of gyno on top of those figures.

Saying that there are different types of gyno is kind of a misnomer. There are 3 different histologic patterns of gyno (I think that is what have been recognized thus far diagnostically). I think this is what you're talking about Wedg, BUT all invole teh mammary gland, just different parts.

The florid pattern consists of an increase in the number of budding ducts, proliferation of the ductal epithelium, periductal edema, and a cellular fibroblastic stroma. The fibrous pattern has dilated ducts, minimal duct epithelial proliferation, no periductal edema, and a virtually acellular fibrous stroma. An intermediate pattern consists of both types. The fibrous pattern is usually the one that you watch for because it is the one that tends to stay longer. In some cases, the florid pattern does digress - especially with cessation of the androgens. Do you want to take that chance though?

There is a classification system based on the causes, however. One is dubbed pathologic and the other physiologic. These are then further subdivided. ALL involve a relative imbalance between androgen and estrogen concentrations or action at the mammary gland level. I think what USFstud is confusing in this case is that if I were talking about regular exogenous androgen introduction, I would be talking about PATHOLOGIC. In the case of M1T, I am obviously talking about PHYSIOLOGIC (in reversion to normal T levels).

__________________________________________________ __________

Usfstud: For some period of time post cycle, you would be looking at UNOPPOSED estrogen action on breast glandular tissue (mind you I will reserve the discussion to gyno, but this is NOT the only action of unopposed estrogen). You have further problems with acute excessive compensatory stimulation of Leydig cells by pituitary gonadotropins which will alter steroidogenic pathways and favors excessive estrogen and estroen precursor secretion relative to testosterone production.

I guess the "luxury" is that you are probably correct to assume that there are NO long term complications outside of it being a cosmetic defect. In fact, I am one who thinks that if you are early enough in the florid stage, you are likely to see complete regression - but again, are you willing to take the chance? Once you hit the fibrotic stage, your new breast tissues is just that - YOURS! Of course, there is always surgery or radiation Rx.

Patients with gyno likely have a very slight increase in breast cancer development, but it may not be that great. There is sometimes a little pain reported in our office, but I cannot verify - oftentimes many of our patients do report cessation of the pain with antiestrogens OR antiaromatases.

USFstud, I solely chose to talk about the example of gyno b/c this seems to be of importance to most (heck it is the most cosmetically debilitatinf of the bunch) and they forget to consider that gyno is NOT all you can develop with cessation of exogenous use. There are also other sequelae of unopposed estrogens --> right down to peculiar tumors of the blood vessels called angiofibromas. While I won't offer the pathophysiology of these things, I guess you can bank on the fact that they may show via red streaks in the skin, but I warn that they are not as easy to treat as gyno.

Bottom Line: You can take your chances and you very well may not find need for PCT, maybe I'll even see you in the wards if you're ever in Baltimore.

[USFstud]

dinoiii - Thanks for all of that information. I really appreciate you taking the time to convey that much knowledge. I know I got my question answered, and anyone who read that and wont take a PCT is a fool.

In fact, I am a little intimiated by the effects of M1T now...should I take 6OXO or something of the like during my cycle as well as with the PCT?

[dinoiii]

If you are taking solely M1T as a stand alone, no anti-aromatizing cpd. is warranted. I think you could save money for use when you finish your cycle and get more out of your dollar. On the other hand, if you include 4-AD or something along those lines, it may be ok to add something like that to your stack.

I think in all regards the decision is yours and my intentions were NOT to stear you away from what is truly a tremendous physique-altering compound (with the right safety guidelines - which is why I am happy we are here to allow you to make a very informed decision). I am, for one, very happy I have included it in my physique goals and just today in fact had some blood drawn for a liver enzyme check.

One thing everyone who is taking these compounds must be aware of - you are altering the hormonal alignment of your bodies. There are certain ways to protect against any wrong-doing and it is just plain smart to do so for not only your health right now, but also in the future (everyone who doesn't have kids maybe would like to conceive one day right?).

Taking the necesssary precautions can aid in what probably becomes a question of quality of life vs. health detriment argument, and oftentimes it is quality of life (with increased muscle mass and decreased body fat) that does outweigh potential sides. This can contribute to many positive additions to your life and I am NOT going to be the one to judge that decision to be wrong - it would be very hypocritical (again, I offer the example of the doctor who smokes, telling you that you should stop smoking). I would like to be here to aid in your decision making process, however, if not but just to give you the necessary info to say this is what "could happen." We can all help each other with something (Wedg has even given me some ideas - but don't tell him that :lol: ).

Any further questions, you have a great support system only a click away!

[USFstud]

dinoiii, or anyone else-

I have read some of your replies in the other threads and you are not a big fan of 6 OXO for PCT; rather, you have more confidence with novla. Is this preference just in treating gyno, or does novla better counteract other aforementioned side-effects, including shrinking balls? Or, does neither, and both just are for reversing bitch-tits?

[dinoiii]

I don't recall saying I "wasn't a fan" - I do recall saying I "preferred" one to the other. Perhaps, it was because I said I felt one was better promoted.


I am not sure you can compare the two as one is a pharmaceutical agent, whereas the other remains a dietary supplement. However, to say nolva is more efficacious than the 6-oxo - I do!!!

[wedgylx]

dinoiii, or anyone else-

I have read some of your replies in the other threads and you are not a big fan of 6 OXO for PCT; rather, you have more confidence with novla. Is this preference just in treating gyno, or does novla better counteract other aforementioned side-effects, including shrinking balls? Or, does neither, and both just are for reversing bitch-tits?

neither will reallt conteract the side effects like shrinking balls because for the most part you will not take 6-oxo or nolva until your cycle is already done

theres really no "reversing" bitch tits so if you see "bitch tits" forming you should stop your cycle right away and start taking your PCT selection. While 6-oxo is a very popular product it isnt as potent as nolva. At most sites even thinking about taking 6-oxo after M1T will get you absolutely torn apart.

[dinoiii]

The perception of "shrinking balls" is usually alleviated with cessation of the PH. (Note: I write in perception b/c I am not sure it has been a verified side of PHs)

If testicular atrophy is ever an issue, hypertrophy is always possible.

[dinoiii]

Only problem as I already stated with the gyno is that if it starts - the florid pattern may NOT be visible clinically.




Comment on the Nolva situation: Nolva - efficacy > potency

[italndiesel]

I hope you are not stacking two methyl 1 test products together...it sounds like that in the very first post.....

i prefer aromadex over 6oxo for clearing estrogen BUT i like the sex drive increase in 6oxo

[USFstud]

sorry, that was bad terminology on my part. I was referring to the methyl 1-test IN the PharmaGenX. So, its just one product. But, I am no longer taking that product, I got it swapped out with just 1-Testosterone by the same company - called 1-Testagenx - I opened up a new thread about a discussion between the related potency of these two products.