Clenbuterol Question For Dinoiii & Mr. Big Dick

[Semper Fidelis]

This question is directed to anyone with knowledge of clen (dinoiii this means you too). Hypothetical Question:

Would you use clen during your cutting phase on its own, or add some other anabolic compound? We have had this discussion on other boards, so of course I try to seek info before joining the thread.

IMO, based on the catabolic effects oof clenbuterol, it should be used in conjuction with other anabolic compounds. Based on what Ive read, it also depletes glycogen in the muscles. This alone would lead me to believe that after a bulk, if you run clen by itself, you could lose fat but also run the risk of losing a lot of muscle too. Isnt clen used to treat asthma or breathing ailments as well? Any feedback would be appreciated. Hoping to hear from you too Mr. Big Dick. Thanks guys.

Semper Fidelis

[dinoiii]

hey man
will be back in Rochester next week. My apologies for not seeing this post earlier.

To answer your question, I will address both research results and anectdotal evidence. Keeping in mind that our knowledge on both remains limited as the studies aren't really there and the anectdotal evidence will give you a mixed bag of results (see Mr. BD's post and recall what you have heard about it from others).

First...true evidence-based reports come from surgical patients as there is indication there to potential benefit in wasting patients and yet still obstructed airways are the only FDA indication I am aware of - this is likely unfortunate but not anything but par for the course there. There has been research on rats that may be able to be applied to humans, but I would claim the jury still to be out on that one and until we see more surgical patient type data, I am not certain I can offer 100% definitive. I only again use those patients because that is who would get the funding to study it.

Clenbuterol, a beta 2-adrenergic agonist, dramatically increases skeletal muscle mass in young animals and partially prevents or restores muscle loss in experimental models (predominantly rats, as I said above) of muscle wasting. However, the protein anabolic and fat catabolic effects of clenbuterol have not been studied in senescent animals so we will remain limited in our discussion to those darn 4-legged rodents. ;-)

What is usually shown on studies using them is the hind limbs show quite the statistically significant increase in anabolism, while adiposity declines. Keep in mind that this limb anabolism does translate into antectdotal report in humans, but to a lesser degree.

So summary up to this point is that it has a high muscle anabolism effect in appendicular regions versus axial. Layman's terms: It works better in the limbs than it does in the torso, but hey this is not much different than ALL anabolic exogenous agents, the luxury here is that you have concurrent fat catabolism which aids the appearance of the trunk anyway. This is time-dependent, however, and over time insulin's anabolic effect appears to be made null and void and with long-term use, I agree - it tends to take away from proteins as well as fat.

So let's look at a bit of the anectdotal crap I know is floating around out there. Dan Duchaine as many know, I am a huge fan of (see article section) -proposed this effect on beta 3's that maybe imparted some of the discrepency that tends to be seen in people versus the rats I mention earlier.

Then one well-known internet writer on another site exclaims: "Let me know the next time you see a 230 pound cyclist (a population of athletes known very well to use Clen to the extreme) and I may change my opinion." Grrrrrrrr - this couldn't have anything to do with the simple fact of their catabolic activity on the stupid cycles now could it? How bout the typical bodybuilder who gets infatuated with cardio during his "cut?" Same idea - voila: catabolism and EARLY!!!

The usage of this particular with anabolics usually centers on use with a non-aromatizing type agent as to prevent water bloat and give that "hard, clean" type look so often described. Maybe this is the case, maybe not - what I can say is that you still should keep Clen cycles in the realm of 3-4 weeks stints (for rationale of avoiding catabolism and utorgulation) so varying the dosing protocol is a good idea. Titrations up and down are likely a good idea too with cyclic "CLEN HOLIDAYS" - which is something I may get into at a later date in a cutting type article not sure...but it is very involved to get the most of this type of agent and make it worth its while.

If you have High blood pressure or any cardiovascular issues, I am going to suggest you either avoid it all together or at least opt for the less problematic causing salbutamol, which isn't discussed nearly enough in the safety realm. While certainly less effective than Clen if extrapolating rodent data, it has statistically significant effects still seen. May be a worthwhile endeavor.

As far as T3 (Cytomel), I would likely avoid getting too caught up in the hype of this agent - when you come off you are likely to have some really tough getting back to normal. I can't issue you getting involved with this, unless you are likely willing to use it year round with Clen and T3 on one, off the other and then continuously switching - but this is likely ludicrous to a degree that you are really playing with fire with thyroid hormones.

Yohimbine HCl is often touted as an additional agent to stack with Clen. ummmm....ok, this too comes from sources that state Yohimbine is actually legal - step away from those sources.

Perhaps a yohimbine HCl stack could offset a cycle of Clen in off periods!

This is a great discussion topic though SF!

[Semper Fidelis]

As usual, you shed great light on the subject. Now armed with some info, its time to hit the other boards, lol. See you next week.

Semper Fidelis

[wedgylx]

from personal experience-

i noticed no anabolic tendencies from Clen that some users report. HOWEVER I did not notice the "extreme catabolism" many users report either. I believe i lost less muscle mass with clen than EC stacks I used in the past.