Prohormones Newbie

[Big D]

:?: I have just bought some Winni Depot and some Anabolic Amplifier. I need some advice on a few things.
I am 41. 6'4, 250lbs. 20% bodyfat. I am a novice weight lifter.
Should I use creatine while I am on this?
I bought enough to last for 60 days. Can I use it all until it's gone or should I cycle it? When I do go off it. Should I take some kind of post-cycle stuff? and one last thing. I am currently taking Diesel Fuel for fat burning. Can I continue to take this when I start with the prohormones or should I stop?

[dinoiii]

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?
lose fat, gain muscle and strength...yeah I get that...
but what first - and do you have a plan of attack


Lets address some haphazerd stuff I noticed in your post:
(1) You have enough what: PH for that duration or creatine?

(2) The creatine while on PHs topic has been discussed at length in this forum though.

(3) Fat burners + PHs - in a word: NO!!!

NOTE: I dont mean to sound short, but I work with what I am given....look at another post with more info and see what that individual gets in retort!

[Big D]

Sorry dude...
I have enough Prohormones to last 60 days.
I want to lose some bodyfat now and then from what you say. I should stop with the Diesel Fuel. I want to get some lean muscle size. But, I have mostly upper body fat in my chest and gut area. Other than that. I am in decent shape everywhere else. Always room for improvement thou.
Any advice will be appriciated..

[italndiesel]

You need to keep cycles short - 4 to 8 weeks max

winnie depot is not my fav prohormone product, hence you have it already, try stacking it with an EQ or a nor andr for hardness in the beginning, then maybe stock up on methyl ohn and methyl dien as well

[dinoiii]

You describe yourself a "PH newbie" - there is another post on here with the same title. If you read that post, you may likely find some of your answers. I do NOT suggest you START with 60 days of ANYTHING!!!!

Now that we know what your tentative goals are - how will we quantify them? i.e. - I want to add "x" pounds of muscle while dropping "y" pounds of fat in the next "z" weeks.

Is your diet checked in? It sounds as though you have a propensity to store fat in the abdominal/trunk area - which certainly is not unusual for men. If you can - post your diet which will be far more impt. it sounds in your quest anyway. Dropping that truncal obesity (kind of Cushing's pattern) will only make you look that much larger in other areas as well.

[Big D]

I want to lose 35-40 lbs. of bodyfat and gain 20-25 of lean muscle in 12 weeks. My diet is pretty clean. I really try to watch what I eat. Staying away from the junk. I eat alot of yard bird (chicken) and fish and lean red meat. I drink 2 protein shakes everyday. I take some fiber chewables too. I just bought some L-arginine today 1000mg. per. I am adding that to my regimine. I also take 2 Vit. B12 each morning with some V-8. I eat alot of veggies and apples. I add extra frozen fruit to my protein shakes. I get burned out on chocolate. I also take some Amino's 2222. I have some Virabolic too. I haven't started in on that yet.
I just need some direction. Thanks to all for your input and help. I take some Recover-x after working out. I have some synthesize creatine.
I ordered some 6 oxo today. I should get it in a week or so. Well, that's everything.............Hook me up fella's.

[wedgylx]

I want to lose 35-40 lbs. of bodyfat and gain 20-25 of lean muscle in 12 weeks.

I dont see that happening.

You need to decide if you want to lose fat or gain muscle.

If I were you, I'd cut hard. Get a perfect diet and use a thermo. Do that for 3 months or until you meet your goals of fat loss. In 3 months you could lose 25-30lbs if your diet is right and your metabolism is average or better. You should also see some gains in muscle during this time.

After that go into your ph cycle and gain muscle.

[italndiesel]

totally agree with wedge - the only prohormone i would suggest honestly at this time would be like a regular 1 test maybe with some deca - that will assist with fat burning

[Big D]

OK, So, your basically saying that I should continue on the fat losing goal and when I get to where I want. Then go onto the Winni cycle?
When I get to that point. Your saying that I should only cycle for 2 weeks?
Not 4 weeks then take how long of a break before I go back onto another cycle?
And when I do come off a cycle...I should use 6oxo?

[wedgylx]

OK, So, your basically saying that I should continue on the fat losing goal and when I get to where I want. Then go onto the Winni cycle?
When I get to that point. Your saying that I should only cycle for 2 weeks?
Not 4 weeks then take how long of a break before I go back onto another cycle?
And when I do come off a cycle...I should use 6oxo?

Exactly. If you use the M1T now (its not winni, winni is a steroid they use its name to suck people in) then you're going to see good muscle gains. But after your cycle if you start cutting your calories, you're going to lose all the muscle you got from the cycle. So I definitely think its a better idea to cut first THEN use M1T

A good way to use M1T is 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, then 4 weeks at least before you use any other hormone. After you stop using M1T PCT is definitely necessary. 6oxo is a popular product they sell here but for something as potent at M1T I would honestly choose nolva. Theres a thread on nolva in the steroid section you might want to check out. Milk thistle is a good idea as well. You might want to use some sort of creatine (i recommend SNS e2 and CVM extreme its what I'm using right now) to help keep your gains while doing PCT.

[Big D]

THANKS SO MUCH Wedgylx!!
This really gives me a great starting point and now I have a plan and direction.
One more thing.....How do you feel about the Body for Life way of working out? Upper Body one day...Then Cardio...Then Lower Body...Then starting all over. Except for the cheat day?
Do you think this is good or should I do a different kind of a split.
I have been doing cardio for 30-45 min. everyday on that Gazelle Glider by Tony Little. I haven't picked up a weight in about 4 months.
Give me your honesty.............Thanks again dude, Dave

[wedgylx]

THANKS SO MUCH Wedgylx!!
This really gives me a great starting point and now I have a plan and direction.
One more thing.....How do you feel about the Body for Life way of working out? Upper Body one day...Then Cardio...Then Lower Body...Then starting all over. Except for the cheat day?
Do you think this is good or should I do a different kind of a split.
I have been doing cardio for 30-45 min. everyday on that Gazelle Glider by Tony Little. I haven't picked up a weight in about 4 months.
Give me your honesty.............Thanks again dude, Dave

I think if you want to gain 20lbs of muscle they you're going to have to make changes. I cant see anyone getting very large with that split.

Everyone has a different split, I run this:

Sunday - Chest
Monday - Back
Tuesday - Cardio am Abs in late afternoon
Weds - Shoulders and upper traps
Thursday - Bi's and Tri's
Friday - Legs
Saturday - cardio am, wrist/forearms in late afternoon

For cardio I do HIIT on a bike because it spares the most muscle mass for me.

HIIT would be something like:
1-2 minutes light warmup
30 seconds higher resistence and pedal as fast as you can
30 seconds lower resistence and pedal slowly
30 seconds higher resistence and pedal as fast as you can
30 seconds lower resistence and pedal slowly
30 seconds higher resistence and pedal as fast as you can
30 seconds lower resistence and pedal slowly
---do until you're dead, shouldnt be much longer than 15 mins--
1-2 minute cooldown

you could do this with your gazelle as well but if you're a member at a gym, a bike would be more beneficial usually

[dinoiii]

One day for legs (1/2 of the body) and the rest of the week for upper body --> Your endocrine system has faster ways of allowing you to reach your goal.


I say for a newbie, get on a first cycle of a NON-METHYLATED PH to preserve muscle mass while you can get PH's at good rates and DROP the IDEA of THERMOs for a more effective and longer lasting effect. This is just another option.

Though:

(1) Diet First,
(2) Workouts need a little consideration (You can read my thoughts on HIIT - its unecessary for the most part if diet is in check, but obviously that is where there is much resistance and a muscle sacrificer which allows burning less calories),
(3) LASTLY SUPPLEMENTS - they have their place or we wouldn't be here, but make sure of 1 and 2 first!


* I respect Wedg's opinions a lot and he puts out solid info...we have a reputation to uphold ya know - but, really there are many options you have and I want to acknowledge that if you get confused at what both of us offer. If one doesn't work, try the other...you'll likely succeed with one or parts of both. If you are to take one thing from my post, right now may be the time to grab a PH vs. Thermo though (certainly potentially more cost effective at the rates on the homepage of this site)! Get em while you can!!!

[Big D]

Thanks alot guys. Both of you have been a BIG help!
and thanks for both of your prompt replies. I'll keep in touch with my progress and keep on reading ALL of the priceless information that is in this forum. kudos to both of you............Dave