Beginning to work-out, etc. What supplements?

[noob]

Hello All,

I've never really formally exercised, but I'm in 'decent' shape (5'5", 120lbs). I'm starting to exercise a bit (Bowflex weights 3 times/week, jog approximately 30 minutes twice/week) and I'm looking for supplements for general improvements in muscle mass, stamina, and supplements to improve general health.

Given these stats, what would you recommend for a 20-year male (no illnesses, normal blood pressure, heart rate, etc.)? Safety is a major concern-- not looking for over-night miracle drugs.

Thanks!

[noob]

Hello,

Just for extra info, my main goals are

1) Increase muscle mass
2) Decrease (slightly) body fat
3) General health improvement

I would like to decrease fat primarily in the abdominal area; but nothing major is required.

Again, I'm VERY new to fitness/health supplements.

I'm 'looking' at the following products.

GAT Liquid Relaxation, 32oz
Body Fx AB-Fx Defining Complex 8oz
Molecular Nutrition X-Factor 90 Softgels

[italionstallionl]

protein is the basis of everything so get some good protein powder, whey protein is good for right before and right after you work out as well as in the morning. at night you are going to want a cassein based protein/blended protein. but just starting out the most important time to take it is right after you work out. the next supplement you should look into is creatine. there are numerous ones on the market mainly depending on what you want to pay. just post what price range you are looking at and people will give list some products

[noob]

Hello,

What's a decent price range?

Preferably not much more than 100/month. (?)

Don't want to 'break the bank', but money isn't too much of a problem. :)

[italionstallionl]

lol, we posted the last two at the same time

i dont know much about x factor, but there is a thread on here discussing it, and some of the safety "issues" with it

liquid relaxation isnt going to put any size or strength on you

while adding muscle you will in turn decrease body fat as long as you keep a good diet

you also want a multi vitamin

[italionstallionl]

check out the thread about how many grams of creatine to take a day-the second page steve from sns posted a lot of good info about the different types of creatines. i just bought e2 matrix and will be starting it shortly, there are a few threads on here about it and the people seem to be liking it. after reading what steve posted try to figure out which type you would like to get

[noob]

(Multi-Vitamin) Centrum Performance
(General Protein) Next Proteins Designer Whey
(Blended Protein) Champion Nutrition SnacBar, 24/1.5oz Bars
(Creatine) Creatine E2 Matrix (~5grams/day)


Should I look at some type of metabolism booster?


Also, I can drink/eat about anything; however, I HIGHLY prefer a capsule/pill instead of a mix/powder. Are there capsule/pill-based products that can accomplish the same thing as a powder/mix?

Finally, I have a rather active schedule (10 hrs/week work, 16-18 college-credit hours per semester, 10 hrs/week assistant teacher)--- short, intense work-outs are the preferred choice. Supplements that can be taken in the morning, evenings, and immediately before/after workouts would be preferred (as opposed to supplements that must be taken every few hours).


I hope I'm not sounding too "picky"--- just wanting to share as much info as possible in order to help others give suggestions.

Thanks!

[wedgylx]

(Multi-Vitamin) Centrum Performance
(General Protein) Next Proteins Designer Whey
(Blended Protein) Champion Nutrition SnacBar, 24/1.5oz Bars
(Creatine) Creatine E2 Matrix (~5grams/day)
That looks great. I'd abandon what you were looking to get originally and get that group of supplements.


Should I look at some type of metabolism booster?
I wouldnt take a thermo while taking creatine. Most thermogenics are dieuretics, or in other words drain water from your system. When taking a creatine, a little extra water retention is going to occur. esterfied creatine (main ingredient in E2 matrix) will definitely have less water retention, but none the less if you want the most of your money I'd run the creatine first and a few weeks down the line think about a thermo. In conclusion, the thermo and creatine would work against each other and you wouldnt see maximum results of either while using them together. So you can buy both now, but dont use them at the same time. I really like how HOTROX by biotest looks and I'd recommend that or SAN Tight.


Also, I can drink/eat about anything; however, I HIGHLY prefer a capsule/pill instead of a mix/powder. Are there capsule/pill-based products that can accomplish the same thing as a powder/mix? You mean of protein? Absolutey not. One scoop of protein would take probably 15 capsules or more. It would also delay the digestion time of the protein, if you're taking it after you workout you want it in your body pretty quickly.

Finally, I have a rather active schedule (10 hrs/week work, 16-18 college-credit hours per semester, 10 hrs/week assistant teacher)--- short, intense work-outs are the preferred choice. Supplements that can be taken in the morning, evenings, and immediately before/after workouts would be preferred (as opposed to supplements that must be taken every few hours).
You shouldnt have any problem with these supplements. The multi will be taken with a meal I'm sure, the protein can be taken for breakfast as well as 30-45mins after your workout, and I'm not positive but I think the E2 matrix is taken 30-45 mins before a workout, then 30-45 mins after the workout (someone correct me if I'm wrong there). Naturally the bars can be eaten whenever you get a spare minute. Just make sure your diet is looking good. Post a sample of your daily diet here and we can help you get it on the right track since its the MOST important thing in your scheme for a better body.

Also, post your workout schedule. We can help you with that too. I'm in the same boat as you, being a college student, so if you have any questions IM me (Wedgylx). Hope this helped

[noob]

Wow, thanks Wedgylx!

I'll reply tomorrow evening with the info you requested.

I can tell you up front my eating habits are HORRIBLE (mainly due to time, conveinance). I'm going to have to do considerable work on this--- I'll post specifics tomorrow evening.

Thanks again for your help; it's exactly what I was looking for.

[wedgylx]

no problem bro

I'll reply tomorrow evening with the info you requested.

I can tell you up front my eating habits are HORRIBLE. I'm going to have to do major work on this
If it makes you feel any better about drastically changing what you're eating (lol).........

I never took diet seriously at all. I used to figure "how important can diet be? The only important thing is protein and I get that from my shakes". Later it was, "these wacko's can monitor everything they eat if they want, how bad could my diet be? I'll just eat 'healthy'. Cut out sugars as best as I can and stay away from fried stuff."

Eventually I broke down and gave strict dieting a try. I used www.fitday.com to track EVERYTHING that entered my body. From whole meals to the milk I put in my tea every last calorie was tracked and had to fit into a strict regiment I designed for myself. I gained more muscle in the first month of doing that than I had in the 1 YEAR prior i had been working out. Truth was I wasnt getting enough protein and not NEARLY enough carbs - and definitely not the healthy kind.

I dont think everyone has to be that anal, however I recommend it if you're serious about getting into shape. Theres plenty of guys here who can help you make it happen, and I'm always available to you if you have questions. You might want to give it a try for a month and see how it goes from there. Do you live on campus or off?

[noob]

Yeah, I've known for quite a while my eating habits are bad, but eating "quickly" and eating "healthy" don't seem to work together at times. I will change this though....

I live in an apartment off campus. My normal meal plan is something like this (don't laugh TOO hard, I know it's bad. :P)

Breakfast --- Sausage/Biscuit, Beverage (normally Coca Cola)
Lunch --- If eating lunch, sandwich (normally 6" Subway Melt), chips, drink
Supper --- Larger meal (bad, I know); normally some type of fast food or restaurant with friends.

My body fat is surprisingly low considering what I eat, but it is still not where I'd like it. The plan is to develop a workout and meal plan that burns body fat and increases muscle mass. I'm frequently told by family I'm under weight; gaining "healthy" weight is the goal.


I'm about to go to bed quite soon; I'll try to post specific info tomorrow about a workout schedule and food intake.


This forum is awesome!

[wedgylx]

I got this from another site but I think you'll benefit from it greatly. Since you live off campus, you buy your food and need to know what and what not to buy :wink:

Proteins*


Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast

Tuna (water packed)

Fish (salmon, seabass, halibut)

Shrimp

Extra Lean Ground Beef or Ground Round (92-96%)

Protein Powder

Egg Whites or Eggs

Ribeye Steaks or Roast

Top Round Steaks or Roast (aka Stew Meat, London Broil, Stir Fry)

Top Sirloin (aka Sirloin Top Butt)

Beef Tenderloin (aka Filet, Filet Mignon)

Top Loin (NY Strip Steak)

Flank Steak (Sir Fry, Fajita)

Eye of Round (Cube Meat, Stew Meat, Bottom Round , 96% LeandGround Round)

Ground turkey, Turkey Breast Slices or cutlets (fresh meat, not deli cuts)


*Complex Carbs*


Oatmeal (Old Fashioned or Quick Oats)

Sweet Potatoes (Yams)

Beans (pinto, black, kidney)

Oat Bran Cereal

Brown Rice

Farina (Cream of Wheat)

Multigrain Hot Cereal

Pasta (Whole Wheat)

Rice (white, jasmine, basmati, Arborio, wild, brown)

Potatoes (red, baking, new)

*Fibrous Carbs*

Green Leafy Lettuce (Green Leaf, Red, Leaf, Romaine)

Broccoli

Asparagus

String Beans

Spinach

Bell Peppers

Brussels Sprouts

Cauliflower

Celery


*Other Produce & Fruits*


Cucumber

Green or Red Pepper

Onions

Garlic

Tomatoes

Zucchini

*Fruit* (if acceptable on diet): bananas, apples, grapefruit, peaches, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries

Lemons or Limes


*Healthy Fats*


Natural Style Peanut Butter

Olive Oil or Safflower Oil

Nuts (peanuts, almonds

Flaxseed Oil


*Dairy & Eggs*


Low-fat cottage cheese

Eggs

Low or Non-Fat Milk


*Beverages*


Bottled Water

Diet Soda

Crystal Light


*Condiments & Misc.*


Fat Free Mayonnaise

Reduced Sodium Soy Sauce

Reduced Sodium Teriyaki Sauce

Balsamic Vinegar

Salsa

Chili powder

Mrs. Dash

Steak Sauce

Sugar Free Maple Syrup

Chili Paste

Mustard

Extracts (vanilla, almond, etc)

Low Sodium beef or chicken broth

Plain or reduced sodium tomatoes sauce, puree, paste)

[wedgylx]

heres a few more ideas of things I eat day to day

Breakfast
1)-Whole wheat bagel with "I cant beleive its not butter"
---1 scoop of whey protein in 4oz skim milk, 4 oz water
---Green tea with splenda

2)-2 whole eggs, 3 egg whites scrambled with skim milk and a little salsa --------added after
---2 peices of wheat toast with "I cant beleive its not butter"
---Green tea with splenda

3)-3 or 4 Pancakes with 1 scoop of whey protein added to mix and sugar --------free syrup
---1 whole boiled egg, 1 boiled egg white
---The usual Green tea with splenda

Meals throughout the day
1)-1 cup low fat or fat free cottage cheese
---1 cup of oats

2)-around a cup of broiled chicken breast NO SKIN
---1 cup of brown rice
---1 cup brocolli

3)-1 cup of raw water packed tuna
----2 or 3 tablespoons "fat free" mayo
---2 slices of wheat bread
---Salad (lettuce, onion, brocolli - no tomatoes) with low cal dressing

4)-1 cup diced chicken breast
---few peices of lettuce
---onions, diced
---low fat shredded cheese
---low cal dressing
----wheat pita

Before bed
1) 3/4 cup cottage cheese
---sugar free maple syrup
---few walnuts

2)-1 cup cottage cheese

3)-1 scoop whey protein
---1/2 cup cottage cheese

4)Micellar protein (not on your list of supplements, but you might consider getting some eventually).

[italionstallionl]

about when to take the e2 matrix i think it is before work out like you said then 6-8 hours before or after that serving

i agree with wed, i wouldnt take a thermo while on creatine

the most important thing i can suggest is to improve your diet
eat more often-7-8 meals a day, and much more healthily, lol, if possible

[dinoiii]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm


I agree with Wedg on many points...not good...must disagree on something.....

well I do sort of, but more or less disagree on a few things and/or want to add:

(1) Caffeine + Creatine. Do they work together? The first creatine studies ever done were with creatine in hot tea (mind you, a caffeinated beverage). CAFFEINE is a DIURETIC and why is it the results of those studies showed statistically significant results?

(2) What the hell is "just eating healthy" for progress? You CANNOT progress without monitoring what you eat...you will never know when the appropriate times are to move things (calories, etc...) up or down. That is, unless you are completely satisfied with where you are at. I am assuming based on this post, this is not the case.

(3) My opinion's of SAN's Tight vary dependent if you are talking the first version released (a good product), current err in judgement with the change (nothing special).

(4) Bars do not equal the physique of your dreams.

(5) I think the goals are everyone's and not quantifiable.

(6) If you are just starting out, YOUR DIET MUST BE IN ORDER 100% BEFORE CONSIDERING SUPPLEMENTS. Dietary supplements are meant for just that - TO "SUPPLEMENT" the DIET.

[dinoiii]

Stallion,

I agree with you as well

Pep Talk: BUT I disagree with one part - there is NO "IF POSSIBLE." You want it or don't - make up your mind. If anyone knows how hard it is to get through school watching the diet, I certainly do. It is VERY POSSIBLE. Its UP TO YOU!!!

[wedgylx]

dinoiii,
would i recommend he kept track of everything? Of course! Just some people arent dedicated enough to do it. My post definitely urged him to try though.

As for the bars, they are definitely not ideal foods, but if hes between classes or something they are nice to have instead of a bag of cheetos and mountain dew.

As to caffeine and creatine, I stick to my prior opinion that if you want the most out of your thermo and the most out of your creatine I would not use them together. This is based on experience of myself and others.

[dinoiii]

Fair enough Wedg.

I as well would have to say that my anecdotal evidence may not have supported it enough, but you offered support in the form of the diuretic being rationale. It is that rationale that I have trouble with, especially when considering the newer creatines, not the monohydrate versions.

I am not trying to sound condescending but I must ask - is that you think I solely base my suggestions on research? Do you not think there is rationale based on experience - my own, as well as clients and patients? Its funny how everyone assumes I am just the science guy - nahhh have put my time in as well actually and certainly practice what I preach!

I would have to say if you cannot find time to throw out the bars and grab some RTDs or a simple shaker - you probably are not serious enough to begin a program and consider supplements. Supplements are for the most part micromanagment. And for a college student - neither that nor the keeping track of things should be considered a "challenge." it is that thinking that affords our thoughts to cut corners and get not-so-stellar results ....then give up soon after we start!

Granted, this is a HIGHLY OPINIATED POST, but I can't tell you how many times I have heard someone who wants to add supplements, and change their workouts and so on,.....and when asked about diet they seem to think that is the area that we can afford sacrifice. I think, of the three, that is the most important part. If and ONLY IF that is in order, consider how to move on to the other two.

[wedgylx]

I am not trying to sound condescending but I must ask - is that you think I solely base my suggestions on research? Do you not think there is rationale based on experience - my own, as well as clients and patients? Its funny how everyone assumes I am just the science guy - nahhh have put my time in as well actually and certainly practice what I preach!
So are you saying you've taken a thermo and a creatine at the same time and gotten full results from each product? If it were possible why wouldnt everyone take a thermo and creatine all year long and keep getting skinnier and bigger? I definately think you'd see results from taking them both, but just not the kind of results you'd get from taking them seperately. Sure, with the new creatines which harbor less water retention it may be less of a problem like i said in my first post. However I still think you would benefit from seperating them. After all, we have different diets for trying to lose fat and for trying to gain muscle. They should be paired accordingly in my opinion

Theres a gentleman on another forum i use that has been lifting for 25 years. He was a powerlifter for the longest time and has vast knowledge on supplementation, diet, and training. When reading one of his posts last year I told him to try taking the thermo and the creatine seperate. Well he dropped the thermo (ECY i think) and got slightly better results from the creatine, but nothing crazy. Then when he used strictly the thermo he got the skinniest he had been in years.


I would have to say if you cannot find time to throw out the bars and grab some RTDs or a simple shaker - you probably are not serious enough to begin a program and consider supplements.
I see what you're saying here. Noob, he's definitely correct in saying ready to drink proteins would be a better idea than the bars. I've never ordered them online though so I'm not sure what shipping would look like. I recommend Isopure RTD. They taste amazing (nothing like the powder).

Correct me if I'm wrong but i dont see RTDs on this site anywhere

[noob]

Hello,

Thanks for all the input (as I type this from work).

I am serious about developing a meal and workout plan; however, there is a simple logistics problem that I can't change much---time. Anything that can't be prepared and consumed in less than 5 minutes and carried in a backpack simply can't work with me. Although I'd like to have a well developed meal every meal, the college life (in between classes) just doesn't permit it--- the bars seem like the only available option. I'm quite flexible on breakfast and supper (I have enough time at each to prepare appropriate meals); however, I have a huge time delimma in between classes.


Dinoii, thanks for you advice (both scientific and advice gained from experience). I understand and appreciate what you're stating about the bars, but I don't have a lot of options... :( However, as you also mentioned, keeping up with my food intake (calories, carbs, etc.) is not a problem.

I'm willing to put the effort into better fitness, but I only can do so much with limited time during parts of the day.

Thanks!

[noob]

Hello,

I should point something out--- I'm fairly happy with my current fitness. I'm not wanting nor am I expecting immediate "stellar" results. I am, however, wanting to assist myself in obtaining better (not necessarily "stellar") fitness with supplements.

Does this make sense? I think there's a difference between being dedicated and being a fanatic. I'd fall into the dedicated category.

I hope this makes sense..... :)

Thanks for your input!

[wedgylx]

noob alot of what i sent you can fit your 5 min window, or even be prepared the day before and microwaved or eaten cold.

[dinoiii]

http://www.discountanabolics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2052#2052

[SNS8778]

Noob:

I didn't want people to think I would read this and not reply, but you are getting alot of quality information here from various people.

If there is anything I can be of help with, please just shoot me an e-mail with any quesitions that you may have.

[italionstallionl]

I would have to say if you cannot find time to throw out the bars and grab some RTDs or a simple shaker - you probably are not serious enough to begin a program and consider supplements. [/quote]

dinoiii, i agree with you bars are not the best, but if all you have is warm water to mix protein with, would you bring your shaker with you and drink that?
the rtd's would be good if you could keep them cold, but same question, do you want to drink a warm rtd?

i also agree with your post about me saying if possible, i eat very cleanly, and get made fun of for it because people say you are in college and shouldnt worry about what you eat, but i tell those people, well i am in college, but dont want to look like you. anyway, i wasnt sure how serious he was about lifting and dieting so i didnt want to impose anything on him like YOU MUST EAT BETTER!!!![/quote]

[noob]

Thanks all for the info!

Protein Bars--- These are DIFFICULT to find that meet the 'requirements' that Dinoiii has posted. Has anyone found anything?

MY TOP 5 CONSIDERATIONS for RESPONSIBLE BAR USE:
(1) Make certain the P:C ratio > 0.5
(2) Make certain it is a quality protein source (NO SOY or Concentrates, good luck btw)
(3) Stear clear of trans-fatty acids (this is usually impossible as of now)
(4) Because they are likely to use carbs (even if in the form of a shit load of sugar alcohols), make certain the fat content is low ... C:F ratio should be > 3.0-3.5
(5) Hopefully, you are NEVER forced to eat them past 7pm (reserve them for the morning, preferably 1st of 2nd meal)
(6) That's all really...good luck meeting these strict requirements...hey there are scientific rationale for each of my top 5 if you ever want to know, simply chime in.



Also, what does RTD stand for? Google wasn't helpful unless it's a Resistance Temperature Device. ;)

Thanks!

[wedgylx]

Thanks all for the info!

Protein Bars--- These are DIFFICULT to find that meet the 'requirements' that Dinoiii has posted. Has anyone found anything?
To meet those requirements, you'd be better off to make your own. Oats, peanut butter, protein....i can find some recipes if it interests you



Also, what does RTD stand for? Google wasn't helpful unless it's a Resistance Temperature Device. ;)

Thanks!

Ready to drink - as in a pre-mixed protein. I dont think Chris carries them since shipping would be ridiculous. You might be better off just grabbing some at GNC or something to be honest

[dinoiii]

There's a lot of truth to why my requirements are so hard - nothing out there is in the "eating healthy" class - you'd be kidding yourself. I am awaiting the supplement company that doesn't kid us on that!

[noob]

Hello,

I'm working on a weekly meal plan/options.

Question--- for my stats, what would be a fairly decent calorie intake? Again, I'm not really looking to lose weight--- I'm thinking 1400-1500 calories. Does this sound 'in-the-ball-park'?

Thanks.

[noob]

Hello,

I've compiled a rough draft of a exercise & meal schedule.

It's available here (http://www.codydecker.com/FitnessSchedule.htm).

Ideas?

Thanks!

[italionstallionl]

i think the bar requirements are good except for one point. no concentrate.
concentrate is not that bad, and the majority of rtd's have whey concentrate in them. i agree with the no soy, abd everything else, but the concentrate is too much

check out these nutrition facts
Serving Size: 1 Bar (105g)
Servings Per Container: 12
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value*
Total Calories 350
Calories From Fat 60
Total Fat 7 g 11%
Saturated Fat 4 g 20%
Cholesterol 15 mg 5%
Sodium 40 mg 2%
Potassium 210 mg 6%
Total Carbohydrates 11 g 4%
Dietary Fiber 1 g 6%
Sugars 0 g
Protein 42 g
Unaccounted Calories 75 calories
Vitamin A 100%
Vitamin C 100%
Calcium 60%
Iron 110%
Vitamin D 100%
Vitamin E 100%
Thiamin (B1) 100%
Riboflavin (B2) 100%
Niacin (B3) 100%
Pyridoxine (B6) 100%
Folic Acid 100%
Cyanocobalamin (B12) 100%
Biotin 100%
Pantothenic Acid 100%
Phosphorus 35%
Iodine 100%
Magnesium 40%
Zinc 100%
Copper 100%

*Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.

Ingredients:
ISS, Protein Blend (Contains- Calcium Caseinate, Whey Protein Concentrate, Whey Protein Isolate, Hydrolyzed Protein), Glycerine, Chocolate Coating (Contains- Maltitol, Salatrim [A Reduced Calorie Fat], Cocoa, Sodium Caseinate, Lecithin, Artificial Flavors, Acesulfame Potassium), Water, Cocoa Powder, Soy Lecithin Oil, Natural Flavors, Vitamin And Mineral Blend (Contains- Dicalcium Phosphate, Magnesium Oxide, Vitamin A Palmitate, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Acetate, Niacinamide, Ferrous Fumarate, Zinc Oxide, Pantothenic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Copper Gluconate, Cholecalciferol, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Potassium Iodide, And Cyanocobalamin [ Vitamin B12], Potassium Sorbate.

[wedgylx]

Hello,

I'm working on a weekly meal plan/options.

Question--- for my stats, what would be a fairly decent calorie intake? Again, I'm not really looking to lose weight--- I'm thinking 1400-1500 calories. Does this sound 'in-the-ball-park'?

Thanks.

I'd go with 1500 for a target for now considering your weight/height.

1500cals
169g protein (45%)
140g carbs (35%)
33g fats (20%)

[italionstallionl]

im guessing with 1500 you are going to lose weight, it will be very difficult, if not impossible to add much strength with that few of calories

[noob]

im guessing with 1500 you are going to lose weight, it will be very difficult, if not impossible to add much strength with that few of calories


Oh... even at 5'5", 120lbs, you'd recommend more? Losing weight is NOT what I'm shooting for (hmm.... maybe a bit in ab area, but not that much).

I've read a few of Dr. Ellington Darden's book (I really like "The Bowflex Body Plan") and thought 1500 would be about the right range considering my height/weight. Maybe I'm wrong?

[wedgylx]

im guessing with 1500 you are going to lose weight, it will be very difficult, if not impossible to add much strength with that few of calories


Oh... even at 5'5", 120lbs, you'd recommend more? Losing weight is NOT what I'm shooting for (hmm.... maybe a bit in ab area, but not that much).

I've read a few of Dr. Ellington Darden's book (I really like "The Bowflex Body Plan") and thought 1500 would be about the right range considering my height/weight. Maybe I'm wrong?

Im confused as to your goals I guess. If you're not trying to lose weight I'd go with

1800cals
180g protein (40%)
180g carbs (40%)
40g fats (20%)

That would be around maintenence for you I beleive. Its hard to shoot out a number because i have no idea what your metabolism looks like. I guess try 1800cals for starters and go up if you dont see much in terms of muscle gain.

[noob]

Thanks Wedgylx.

I'm probably making it a bit confusing! :)

I'd like to actually GAIN 'healthy weight' (i.e., muscle); however, I would NOT mind losing a FEW (thinking ~5?) pounds of body fat. Physical appearance shows no major 'fat' areas. Does this help?

1800 sounds good. I was thinking more around that range from what I've been reading. My metabolism isn't too bad I don't think.

Question--- should I go to my family M.D. and have a blood work/physical completed? I know they say to always visit your doc before starting workout routine, etc. Do you think it's really necessary for what I'm trying (minor supplements)?

Ideally, I think losing approximately 5 lbs of body fat and gaining ~5-10 lbs of muscle would be excellent. Does this sound like a realistic short to mid-term goal?

Thanks!

[max von]

Wedglyx

after that food post i might have to have you over to cook my meals for me. noob definatly get plenty of protien some cee and may be a goo NO product. But food is definatly the best thing that you can put in your body. I your looking to gain size stay away from the thermos

max von

[max von]

noob

you have to come up with a specific goal then let us know and we will help you out as far as going to the doctor i dont think anyone would tell you not to go but i think you can get most the info you need right here

max von

[noob]

noob

you have to come up with a specific goal then let us know and we will help you out as far as going to the doctor i dont think anyone would tell you not to go but i think you can get most the info you need right here

max von



Ideally, I think losing approximately 5 lbs of body fat and gaining ~5-10 lbs of muscle would be excellent.

More specific? Give me a break; I'm a noob! :P (just kidding, I understand the need for specific; I'm concerned I am too new and too unexperienced to give much more specifics than that though)

Thanks!

[max von]

dont worry about it noob we were all knew here. Let us know a weight that you are looking to get at what you want the supplements to do for you and the time frame that you are looking for your results to happen in. other specifics would be your body measure ments and if you can your body fat count those would be goo info to start with. And relax we are hear to help ask as may questions as you need and you will get help

max von

[wedgylx]

Wedglyx

after that food post i might have to have you over to cook my meals for me. noob definatly get plenty of protien some cee and may be a goo NO product. But food is definatly the best thing that you can put in your body. I your looking to gain size stay away from the thermos

max von

I figure the body building diet is pretty bland so ive tried to find ways to spice it up a little.

noob, you can see a doctor if you'd like to but I dont think its necessary. If you have a check up any time soon you should bring it up. Just to warn you, (sorry if this rubs you the wrong way dinoiii, but you're an exception to the rule here so dont worry) most doctors are really ignorant when it comes to supplements. My previous doctor told me to stop taking protein shakes because drinking even one protein shake a day is too much on me and I'll need dialasis. The ignorant fool should know a protein shake of 30g is no cause for worry. He also suggested I start a low carb diet if I wanted to lose weight. I informed him that to get the right amount of calories by body needs on a low carb diet I'd be taking in twice the amount of protein I was now, and used some choice words for the hypocrit who talked to me like I was five years old and knew nothing about diet or supplements. This was only one of the many disagreements we had based on supplements before I finally found a new doctor.

The next doctor I had told me he KNEW I was using steroids and to stop lying to him. He said noone can get stretchmarks around thier arms like I have unless they were using AAS. I told him to never call me a liar again and had him test my hormone levels. Of course they came back normal and he ate his words. I had to stop seeing him as well. I'm in the process of finding a new doctor now. I wish i could find one that had any idea what he was talking about when it came to supplements. If anyone has any recommendations in MA let me know lol

[max von]

wedglyx

well since you said it i will agree my doctor asked me the same thing cause i had not seen him in about nine mouths when i told him that i was taking creatine he told me that was a waste of money and that every journal that he had read said it was just some thing that made you think it helped. I dont trust them either when it comes to supps. Dinoiii on the other side looks at things with open eyes and would belive him over an other doc that i know

max von

[wedgylx]

pretty sad when you and I, a couple of average joes, can make a doctor look like a fool when it comes to supplements. I wish there was some sort of specialist in my area i could see but I'm finding nothing. I'm going to start looking in boston. It would be worth the commute to have someone I can relate to.

I look at it this way, if you have alot of problems with your stomach you want to see a doctor specializing in gastro, if you are a child you want to see a pediatrician, why should my way of life mean I have to settle for someone who has no idea how to relate to me or help me?

[dinoiii]

I agree that MOST DOCS do NOT know the first thing about this domain. I try and get the word out wherever I go, but I would agree. This kind of comment does not rub me the wrong way Wedg. I think it is expected these days.

[max von]

Dinoiii
is it that most doctors are scared of the research that s being done or is it just a matter of ego.

max von

[dinoiii]

Well,
you are asking as if there is one answer Max and I am not certain there is. I will take a crack at what I feel may be the best answer.

To that, I can only respond one way. I think that that the misinformation stems from that which is unknown and sheer complacency. In studying medicine, how much information do you think is preached to us about dietary supplements? I bet it didn't take long for you to respond. That being said, many are content to simply do what it takes to get while sacrificing initiative. Initiative to delve into the unknown and seek out that which will finally do something different if what they had been trying all along had produced well less-than-stellar results: how many can name either a fat doctor preaching dietary advice or a fat aerobics instructor telling you to do your cardio --> yeah, great...nod your head and move along quickly.

I urge you to test your doctors because there are some good ones out there who soak up all the information they can surrounding all modalities of the human body and its dynamics. But if your doctor fails to pass your test, perhaps he is the last one you want to go to for this kind of info. Now, understand I am speaking only in terms of workout, dietary and supplementation information. Can you imagine what respons you'd get by asking him/her if they thought either DCM, CM, TCM, CEE was best for your body composition goals? If you want something like liver enzymes checked,however - he/she is the person to go to, but don't expect them to understand your drive to be a big "mutha."

[wedgylx]

I dont necessarily want a doctor who knows everything about supplementation, I just want one with an open mind who doesnt tell me ephedra WILL kill me if I use it.

[dinoiii]

Good point.

[dinoiii]

Chances are though - if they are "open" to it, they perhaps know a little about it. Does anyone know "everything?"


I like to think I do! :lol:

[wedgylx]

Chances are though - if they are "open" to it, they perhaps know a little about it. Does anyone know "everything?"


I like to think I do! :lol:

noone knows everything, thats what makes body building a challenge. You have to sort through the garbage until you find what works

[dinoiii]

Again good point,


But one man's garbage may turn out to be another man's treasure with different body chemistries.


I think we agree agiain - I hope you realize I was kidding! Ok, I'll accept that I know MOST things :?

[wedgylx]

Again good point,


But one man's garbage may turn out to be another man's treasure with different body chemistries.


I think we agree agiain - I hope you realize I was kidding! Ok, I'll accept that I know MOST things :?

i realized it dinoiii, and agree different workouts and supplements work for different people

[noob]

Hello,

I think I have decided to do the following:

Start modified meal plan immediately; take Hot-Rox to lose some body fat (probably ~5 lbs) and start cardio exercises (running/hiking). After I'm satisfied with % body fat, start taking other supplements previously mentioned (whey, protein, creatine). Using this method, I won't be mixing supplements and won't be performing potentially (at least according to Dinoiii) dangerous exercises together.

Thanks.

[italionstallionl]

oooooooo, wait til dinoiii heres that you are going to be doing cardio :shock:

[noob]

oooooooo, wait til dinoiii heres that you are going to be doing cardio :shock:

LOL. I think I'm actually taking his advice (in a sort-about-way)...by not weighlifting AND doing cardio at the same time. ;)

[dinoiii]

oooooooo, wait til dinoiii heres that you are going to be doing cardio :shock:

LOL. I think I'm actually taking his advice (in a sort-about-way)...by not weighlifting AND doing cardio at the same time. ;)


Now, there's an interesting way to look at it. :evil:

Certainly I have not dubbed the two "dangerous" together, more like "detrimental" to reaping the rewards of the other.

I have said too that body composition will see greater effects through weight training so we are all clear though. :wink:

[noob]

oooooooo, wait til dinoiii heres that you are going to be doing cardio :shock:

LOL. I think I'm actually taking his advice (in a sort-about-way)...by not weighlifting AND doing cardio at the same time. ;)


Now, there's an interesting way to look at it. :evil:

Certainly I have not dubbed the two "dangerous" together, more like "detrimental" to reaping the rewards of the other.

I have said too that body composition will see greater effects through weight training so we are all clear though. :wink:


All clear! :)

[max von]

dinoiii

thanks for the quick response to my question and that was an excellent answer it great to see that there are other doctors out there like your self that are willing to go beyond just the text book and actually look into the rearch. I think personally you are truly an asset to this board

max von

[max von]

i have to agree about cardio any time that i have tried it in the past it has caused me to lose way to much size and mass stick to the weights

max von

[wedgylx]

i have to agree about cardio any time that i have tried it in the past it has caused me to lose way to much size and mass stick to the weights

max von

that means you're doing it wrong :wink:

There are definitely ways to do cardio and gain muscle mass.

[max von]

Wedglyx

please fill me in i am interested in that cause the stuff that i have always done has not been good i will look forward to your response

max von

[wedgylx]

Wedglyx

please fill me in i am interested in that cause the stuff that i have always done has not been good i will look forward to your response

max von

My favorite thus far is HIIT. I've posted about it on a few threads Try a stationary bike, it spares the most muscle mass for me.

1-2 minutes warm up light resitence and effort
30 seconds higher resistence, 100% effort
30 seconds lower resistence, light effort
30 seconds higher resistence, 100% effort
30 seconds lower resistence, light effort
30 seconds higher resistence, 100% effort
30 seconds lower resistence, light effort
>>go until you cant go anymore, no longer than 15-20 mins<<
1-2 mins cool down

or many people use 30-45 mins medium effort

[max von]

wedglyx

so this is kinda like the old sprint for 30 sec then walk fast then sprint again for 30 second idea i have a stationary bike and definatly try this

max von

[wedgylx]

wedglyx

so this is kinda like the old sprint for 30 sec then walk fast then sprint again for 30 second idea i have a stationary bike and definatly try this

max von

Everything worth a try, right max?

[dinoiii]

It was laughed at for years with people trying to push the newest cardio machine on us until just recently, Danish researchers finally showed that fast twitch muscle fibers are used more during weight training and BURN MORE CALORIES DURING RECOVERY. FAST TWITCH muscle fibers are stimulated BY WEIGHT TRAINING....to a lesser (albeit unnecessary degree) extent by SPRINTS (slow monotonous jogs are useless).



Now, your aerobics is good for glycogen depletion (one reason you NEVER do cardio, if you subject yourself to that torture in the first place, prior to weight training), and caloric burning to a lesser extent ---> but the calorie burns stop for the most part when the activity does - hmmm may as well not ingest the calories in the first place.

[italionstallionl]

back to the doctor thing
my doctor asked me if i was taking anything, told her i was trying to gain weight and just doing protein and creatine, she looked stunned and asked me why i didnt just go to steak n shake and drink 2 milkshakes everyday. im serious, that is exactly what she told me

[italionstallionl]

fyi a large chocolate shake has 775 calories, two of those a day definitely would put a little weight on me


or a lot :?