CREATINE AND METHYL'S

[JONSON BULLARD]

I HOPE dinoiii YOU GET A HOLD OF THIS ONE I WAS BRIEFLY READING YOU LIVER S&S AND COUGHT HOLD OF SOMETHING YOU SAID ABOUT THE KIDNEYS AND CREATINE ALONG WITH THE METHYL'S AND LIVER. BECAUSE OF PEOPLES CONCERN WITH THERE LIVER AND WHETHER THEY SHOULD TAKE A NOLVA OR A 6 OXO WITH THERE "ON CYCLE" AND IF IT WERE TO IMPEDE THE GAINS. WELL MY M1T SAYS TAKE CREATINE WITH IT AND I DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING "PCT" UNTIL OFCOURSE AFTER CYCLE. BY ME TAKING CREATINE WITH METHYL AND NO 6OXO AM I SETTING MYSELF UP FOR DISASTER?

[SNS8778]

I know this was directed and Dinoii, but I felt the need to state that we make a Methyl 1-Test and would never tell anyone to take our Creatine E2 Matrix or CVM Xtreme with it. Instead, add them in on your off cycle and many people are using them during their PCT.

[JONSON BULLARD]

I JUST BOUGHT THE E2 CREATINE BUT NOT THE MATRIX IS THERE MUCH DIFFERANCE? ALSO I GET CONFUSED ABOUT PCT I THOUGHT THAT MENT AFTER YOUR CYCLE TAKE SOMETHING LIKE 6OXO TO KEEP YOUR HORMONES STEADY? AM I WRONG? PLEASE DONT HOLD BACK :lol:

[SNS8778]

Creatine E2 is straight Creatine Ethyl Ester Caps. Creatine E2 Matrix contains Creatine Ethyl Ester plus other ingredients for a nitric oxide potentiation effect.

PCT encompasses restoring your bodys hormonal levels to the appropriate levels. It also encompasses anti-estrogens. Some people even extend it to include liver support supps.

My reason for saying that many people use Creatine E2 Matrix along with PCT is that during PCT, many people hit a plateau or that 'wall' where your progress stops or even goes backwards if PCT is not done correctly. Then they become discouraged. By using Creatine E2 Matrix, it allows a person to continue making progress even while off-cycle on the ph's.

[italndiesel]

creatine while on cycle, though a valuable asset, in my opinion should be saved for off cycle. my reason is exactly as steve said....the ph's on cycle will build enough muscle without creatine...however, when on pct you need the creatine at times to maintain strength and some size

[max von]

creatine is great as stated for afterward to maintain your gains but you would just be waisting your money and you would still need some PCT i case you were to have some sides

max von

[JONSON BULLARD]

THANX GUYS YOU HAVE ME OUT A LOT. I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING MORE OF YOUR INSIGHT ON FOLLOWING IDEAS AND QUESTIONS. PS! CANT WAIT TO TRY THE "SNS" PRODUCTS!

[dinoiii]

Surprised I didn't see this post earlier, but the board is growing at a pretty rapid rate. I can say that you seem to be in good hands Johnson with what has been told to you and I am very happy that it seems you have been reading a lot of info on the board, etc... versus just taking supplements haphazardly.


the kidneys ----> creatine
the liver ----> methyls


* The connections are not mutually exclusive which is, perhaps the problem. There are so many considerations here.

* You're bottom line question was with using them concurrently are you "setting yourself up for disaster." I will say that it depends on what your idea of "disaster" is. If potential health problems are a concern, then YES - mind you, I am not one to say that one or the other has not proven a decent safety record while used alone. While using the two together, my biggest concern is a condition called renal papillary necrosis post-filtration of each prior to elimination from the body.

While coupling the entire scenario with NO PCT, I think Steve, Max, and Diesel covered the potential taking steps backward that may arise by not properly protecting yourself after your cycle concludes. So if your idea of "disaster" instead encompasses potentially losing the gains you earned while on cycle and not so much potential health effects you are aware of by taking both compounds, then this too is of concern. Bumping your creatine supplementation (and I don't care if its an ethyl ester, dicreatine malate, taking creatine while standing on your head and rubbing your stomach) to PCT with a compound like 6-oxo could only do one of 2 things (both of which are positives):
(1) aid in maintenance of the gains you earned while "on cycle"
(2) protect in the potential negative health effects from not considering rate of elimination effects of the compounds and volume of distribution


So, I guess in summary, the qualified response remains it depends. What is it you are looking for by using them both at the same time and avoiding PCT?

[max von]

Dinoiii
good post you always know how to get the point across great post and that was my question what was the purpose of taking both

good job

max von

[JONSON BULLARD]

MY REASON FOR ASKING WAS BECAUSE I BOUGHT THE WINNI DEPOT M1T, AND ON THE BOTTLE IT SAYS TAKE 1000MG OF CREATINE A DAY ALONG WITH GLUTAMINE TWICE A DAY AND FRUIT JUICE AFTER WORKOUTS TO KEEP INSULIN LEVELS UP, BUT AFTER READING SOME, I WAS CONFUSED BECAUSE I GOT THE IMPRESSION DONT DO CREATINE AND METHYL'S AT THE SAME TIME SO THATS WHY I ASKED.

[max von]

jonson no problem you would just be wasting your money save that money for buying more supps on DA. (sorry cheap plug for chris)

max von

[dinoiii]

"ON THE BOTTLE IT SAYS TAKE 1000MG OF CREATINE A DAY ALONG WITH GLUTAMINE TWICE A DAY AND FRUIT JUICE AFTER WORKOUTS TO KEEP INSULIN LEVELS UP"

That's an intriguing recommendation and one I am not aware of the rationale for.

Therefore, I am going to go out on a limb and assume
(1) the keeping insulin levels up was in relation to solely the fruit juice after workouts - which I read it as glutamine + creatine + fruit juice = increased insulin (which is not the case)
(2) 1 gram of creatine isn't even what I would recommend if you were using creatine during PCT for a well-trained individual, but perhaps the rationale for its DECREASE albeit use still is in fact, kidney protection - I am speculating...
(3) You can take glutamine year round, but again I would watch its effects on the intestine + save massive dosing for times of dieting, increased stress, etc... Methylated PHs may be what their ideology is for the INCREASED STRESS - again, I am speculating...