Serious hypothetical

[Ibanez]

Ok, here goes. Lets say you had been training for a while. Your diet is in order, other life factors are ok.

1) Now lets say you wanted to reach your genetic potential in as shoryt a REALISTIC journey possible. You enlisted a team like Chad Nicholls to run your drug protocols, Charles Glass to train you and Milos Sarcev to oversee diet etc for good measure.

2) Your budget was unlimited. You could access any AAS you wanted legally, you could have medicals done whenever, deep tissue therapy and massage regularly and diet/protein etc all in excellant timing. You could dedicate your waking hours to achieveing this goal.

I am TOTALLY realising that the above hypothetical is pretty much impossible. I wouldn't try and validate it. But lets say that all the above factors could be attained and controlled. What would your educated guess be in attaining near peak genetic potential from the point of starting such a program like the above.

As a half educated guess, I would think maybe 18 months or so? I am not suggesting the extra 5 lbs a pro bodybuilder may struggle to achieve in the upper echelon of the sport, more like NPC level etc....

Thoughts anyone???

[Wes Carnegie]

I have a question for you first... Are you considering goining on stage???????? Once you repy, I'll tell you exactly what I would take(given those such circumstances and another 5 years of life).

Wes Carnegie

[Ibanez]

Hey Wes, You know I debated that once, but in honesty to make that a serious proposition, (going on stage) my entire lifestyle would need to change to a level I cannot imagine doing....

I would however appreciate your thoughts on this.

[dinoiii]

this is a matter of words really.

"genetic" limit is something achieved without exogenous materials.

what I would dub your "chemical" limit could likely still NEVER be achieved. Rationale - the best "coaches" in the world cannot control for certain factors (i.e - inability to rise above newly set metabolic requirements - what I mean with this example is that even today's best can only consume "x" number of calories, etc... yet provided substrate, this is something "work through-able.")

Laws of the Unfortunate Universe in which we live dictate: something cannot be created out of nothing. I can bet you could get "close" yet NEVER reach your goal in 100 years - it is like laws of exponential limits. Unfortunate, but true ... why would you want to, however, ever reach your "limit." Nothing to strive for leaves you with what?

[Ibanez]

Yes, D, I agree, it would be impossible to quantify on es potential limit. To doso would be able to understand control or chaos theory, something which is impossible to do so.... thats why I suggested near genetic potential... as in not the extra 5 lbs some top pro's try and attain over several years....

Chad suggests heavy diuretic use huh? Mohammad Beniziza and Andraus Munzer's deaths didn't teach us anything??

I agree MBD, I wouldn't near kill myself for competition either. I remember some words Jay Cutler said during the post Olympia press conference that have haunted me.... He said he would take some time off to allow his body to heal and recuperate.... that sounds more akin to the comments of a high level boxer, not a bodybuilder!!

Seperate thought, but wanted to ask MBD anyway. During the 2004 Olympia, one athlete nearly died in his hotel room and Shawn Ray 'discovered; him in time... who was that guy?

[Wes Carnegie]

Well Ibanez. I think that you should compete.

I powerlifted for a long time and always said that bodybuilding was just gay guys with beach muscle. Typical of anyone who dosent' think they have a body of that caliber--correct?

After I did my first bodybuilding show I was hooked and have spent every day since then training and dieting(eating correctly to gain muscle)--this DOES include Thanksgiving and Christmas day. I did miss one day after having my wisdom teeth removed.

In my opinion you don't need heavy drug use or political influence to achieve PERSONAL GOALS. If you want to win the Arnold... then dismiss my post and buy syringes.

Bottom Line-If you work hard and do everything in your power to be the absolute best your body will allow, then you will have a sense of superiority that I can't descibe in words. I've been there... and I'm on the way back.

Please email or pm me if you would like to further talk yourself into it. I think it would be a great experience. Be sure to read my signature.

God Bless,

Mr. 06 Mississippi(Wes Carnegie)

[Wes Carnegie]

Wurd MBD. Right on Bro

Wes

[Ibanez]

Uggh, that is crazy... You know who ireally respect, Bob Cicerillo. ok, ok, he IS very New York... lol but for a mid level 'average' pro he is marketing himself very sensibly.... he is setting himself up very well financially as a result.

Seeing what some of these pro's do to themselves for what amounts to a small amount of money...like Johnnie Jackson basically getting $1,000 or so from this years Mr O.... and the sheer expense of the drugs needed to get themselves in that condition... makes no sense. I heard from a pro, that an 'insane' pro level Mr O cycle cost for a pro runs about $6,000.... any comment on this?

From a purely financial position, it is insane to be doing what these guys do. Then you combine that with what they are doing in terms of their long term health... you really have to question the intelligence....

Why some rival federation does not get established once and for all leaves me bewildered!!!!

Thats why I like Bob C. He seems to have 'gotten smart'

Feel free to comment on my comments... more discussion the merrier!!

[Wes Carnegie]

Compete. Do it.

[Ibanez]

I cn clearly envisage a little Wes C on one shoulder urging me to compete....

Dude, it is tempting, but I think I ould have a few years to get any where near looking at that stage!!

[Wes Carnegie]

Okay man. You know yourself better than anybody, but don't forget that you are also your own worst critic.

Wes

[Ibanez]

Yep, all true.... It just seems crazy to spend such a massive amount of money, train your guts out. Rid yourself of bodyfat and water until you are near death (hear about Gunter going out the back to throw up, from feeling so ill, not to mention blood in the vomit) during pre-judging at this years Mr O)
and then getting $1,000 for their efforts????

Honestly, the philanthropic part of me wants to give some of the lower place getters a couple of hundred each, but then the other part of me thinks, surely these guys can see the forest for the trees??

So here is another question.... with rampant GH, Insulin and heavy Diuretic usage going on, are we going to see more and more deaths over the coming yers as a result??

Part of me thinks yes, but another part thinks no-due to the greater advocation of regular doctor checkups, bloodwork etc by many pro's now as part of their lifestyle?

What do you think?

[Wes Carnegie]

Well... I'd say that one person will die in the next few years and as a result everybody will say..."AH IT'S THOSE DAMN STERIODS" but in reality people rarely have problems from steriods until they take ridiculous dosages. Even then, the chance of death is very unlikely. If anyone does die it will be from all of the diuretics.

People believe what they want to believe. In the end, the winstol will be the culprit of his heart attack, and not all of the lasix and DNP.

I've even heard of some bodybuilders using lots of clenbuterol and crysal meth in order to get under 4 %. Does that sound healthy? I mean really.

Wes Carnegie