SammyDaHamma's GET HUGE Tren/Mdrol Log

[SammyDaHamma]

Hey everyone, my stuff wont be here tell some time next week, so I dont have an exact start date yet, but wanted to get this started asap. I will be doing regular logs, but I really want to make one detailed one at the end of each week, so bear with me if days go by with no word :D

Im receiving 1 bottle of Xmass and 1 bottle of Mdrol. I will be running it as such:

tren 100/100/100/100/100
mdrol 0/10/10/20/20

I am recapping the tren to 50 mg and will dose every 12 hours-- 24 hours in the am for the first 2 weeks of mdrol. This will happen with large meals that have enuff fat in them.

support:
fish oil for lipids
coq10 for bp
silymarin for liver
ketoconazole for acne
dhea n b12 for lethargy
eca for extreme lethargy
b6 for prolactin
ai or resveritol for gyno

pct:
reversitol/testofen or toremifene/aromasin
eca or clen 2 weeks in
pslin and maybe anabolic pump as well
scifit shockwave - karbolyn
creatine ee
diarginine malate
beta alanine
hmb
glutamine

I have a few goals for this cycle:

*get back to my pre cut weight back in november, and exceed that if possible -- i believe i got to 177, Im around 160 right now.

*maintain current cardio capacity

*hit a couple new PRs

*finally pull out a real good six pack - ive always wanted one that i didnt need to flex for it to be seen

*last but not least(and i know im going to get heat for this) attempt an otc pct, with a serm on hand if this fails, but hoping it wont to show that a otc pct can work...

ill post more on diet and excercise regiment later...

LETS DO THIS!

[Cajun_1978]

Looks good Sammy good luck. Your right you will probably catch some heat for using OTC PCT but your doing it smartly having a SERM on hand in case. I know it can be done with OTC I've run a few cycles myself with OTC PCT (H-drol, M-drol, and Xetreme tren all separate :o ). SERMs are proven but I do not think they are the end all for PCT, there is a lot of good stuff out there today that you can get legally to successfully bring you through PCT. I think you will be just fine. Once again good luck bro. :D

[thebigt]

go with p5p instead of regular b6-you might need prolactin control running 2 progestin's together.

[SammyDaHamma]

ya im fully confident in the pct i have lined up... ur going straight to serm right? oh n you should post up some personal info on ur cycle so it doesnt look like ur hyjacking the thread if you end up doing what we've been talking about...

ya ill look into p5p, ive heard that get brought up a bit.

but im confused bout sdrol: i thought it was a dht derivative that mirrors masteron and anadrol or sumthin, sitting like right in the middle of the two in terms of strength and size gains... and ive seen a lot of conflicting information on sdrol being type 1 or 2 steroid... which is it?

[SammyDaHamma]

go with p5p instead of regular b6-you might need prolactin control running 2 progestin's together.

whats a good dose protocol, and what do i look for b4 running it? just soar nips?

[Gottest]

I always add 500mg Tyrosine 2x/day with P5P or B6, to keep the prolactin in check.

[mw1111]

Good chance of prolactin or rebound in that cycle:( :D

[SammyDaHamma]

ya ive never had issues with tren or sdrol by themselves... stacked is unmarked territory for me. any advice anyone can give me to keep things in check is greatly appreciated. it almost seems worth investing in hcg...

[SammyDaHamma]

So as of now im thinking Reversitol & Testofen, not sure if I need to ramp up on another AI as im ramping down on the Reversitol. Ill place my order in the 3rd week of my cycle(4 weeks from now). The reason being is i want to give some more time for the Toremifene to show up b4 i spend more.

If the Torm does show, will I need to run it with an AI or will dosing it 100/75/50/25 suffice for pct. I hear it stops gyno better than tamox, and causes hpta recovery better than clom, is less toxic, and has lower sides.

[SonicSWOLE]

So as of now im thinking Reversitol & Testofen, not sure if I need to ramp up on another AI as im ramping down on the Reversitol. Ill place my order in the 3rd week of my cycle(4 weeks from now). The reason being is i want to give some more time for the Toremifene to show up b4 i spend more.

If the Torm does show, will I need to run it with an AI or will dosing it 100/75/50/25 suffice for pct. I hear it stops gyno better than tamox, and causes hpta recovery better than clom, is less toxic, and has lower sides.


Wow, that's a pretty wild claim as clom is used as a "fertility" drug.

[mw1111]

I would NEVER depend on Reversitol for that cycle:(

[SammyDaHamma]

look up what people have to say about torm "3 days at 120mg for full recovery of test," and other such claims... one guy even wrote a song "do your balls hang low, do they wobble to the floor-- tamox kinda, torm hells ya. saying one week after severe shutdown had two deathstars in his nutsack. so i dunno that seems like better recovery to me. :D

pretty much ive been reading that the concensus is that torm zones out both tamox and clom... if someone who has used all three has anything to say against it let me know.

but back to what i asked, would torm be all you need for pct?

in ragaurds to reversitol, vaughn was talking about people making full recovery with it after bold/sdrol cycles... and hypothetically speaking, if serms n hcg didnt exist, what would be recommended for pct?

i mean there was a day, when people used steroids, and pct didnt exist... like the 50s-70s, and still had success. i mean what about the GOVERNATOR?

[6pakguy]

Just use clomiphene and aromasin for PCT. Keep it simple

[thebigt]

ya ive never had issues with tren or sdrol by themselves... stacked is unmarked territory for me. any advice anyone can give me to keep things in check is greatly appreciated. it almost seems worth investing in hcg...

i ran vitex/low dose cel td formestane on my xtren cycle, i went as high as 5 caps a day with no bad sides except bad lethargy at the end. i also added in powerful to pct about 3 days ago, something with resveritrol might be good to add to pct also. man, i got to hand it to you that is one killer stack-imo you can't take too many precautions.:eek:

[SammyDaHamma]

Just use clomiphene and aromasin for PCT. Keep it simple

I already have Torm and Aromasin coming in the mail... Im asking if I need to run both or just the Torm...

ya the more talk about this cycle, the more i want to scratch the otc pct... i mean im thinking i can have successful pct with serm, or have to use the serm anyways with otc doesnt work... wats the point of running the otc? its just extra money spent for an unsure thing.

but ya im going to start running p5p and if my nips get puffy or soar im going to add in a low dose of aromasin... if im taking the dhea for lethargy, and my nips start getting funny, should i drop the dhea, or keep taking it on aromasin?

[thebigt]

I already have Torm and Aromasin coming in the mail... Im asking if I need to run both or just the Torm...

ya the more talk about this cycle, the more i want to scratch the otc pct... i mean im thinking i can have successful pct with serm, or have to use the serm anyways with otc doesnt work... wats the point of running the otc? its just extra money spent for an unsure thing.

but ya im going to start running p5p and if my nips get puffy or soar im going to add in a low dose of aromasin... if im taking the dhea for lethargy, and my nips start getting funny, should i drop the dhea, or keep taking it on aromasin?

600mg a day of p5p will stop a nursing mother from lactating within a week, powerful stuff. puffy nips shouldn't be a problem at around 100-150 ed.

[6pakguy]

I already have Torm and Aromasin coming in the mail... Im asking if I need to run both or just the Torm...

ya the more talk about this cycle, the more i want to scratch the otc pct... i mean im thinking i can have successful pct with serm, or have to use the serm anyways with otc doesnt work... wats the point of running the otc? its just extra money spent for an unsure thing.

but ya im going to start running p5p and if my nips get puffy or soar im going to add in a low dose of aromasin... if im taking the dhea for lethargy, and my nips start getting funny, should i drop the dhea, or keep taking it on aromasin?
Use aromasin during PCT to help restore natty t levels. It is useless during the cycle as neither of those compounds aromatize

[thebigt]

Use aromasin during PCT to help restore natty t levels. It is useless during the cycle as neither of those compounds aromatize

you are sure about that? seems to be a lot of debate going on over this topic for you to come off so sure of it. 1 theory suggests that without elevated estrogen prolactin levels would not go up. i am undecided-to much controversial information to even begin to be sure. there is a hotly contested thread on another forum, good arguments for both sides.

[SammyDaHamma]

isnt there an equation for it like prolactin+estrogen+igh1=gyno...
so if u react by having elevated estrogen levels or sumthin acts like estrogen,
doesnt nec convert to it, just has properties, it can cause gyno? and an ai
can stop that? i mean im only talking if the dhea is causing too high of estrogen
levels. and doesnt dht(and dht compounds) counteract this? like i think i read
that if u run dht and test you wont have to worry about estrogen?

well all the same seems p5p is the solve all for those prolactin and estrogen
sides... i mean i doubt any issues should arise, ive run both of these
compounds b4 without issues. im just concerned that combining them, and then
taking dhea for lethargy might cause some issues, and 150mg p5p ed should
stop that?

now wat im asking is the ai is used to elevate test levels, but torm should
have me back to normal by the end of week 1; 4 weeks on it and im not sure
if ill need the ai, so can i just save it for later?

[SonicSWOLE]

Save the AI. You'll be fine with the SERM.

[Cajun_1978]

isnt there an equation for it like prolactin+estrogen+igh1=gyno...
so if u react by having elevated estrogen levels or sumthin acts like estrogen,
doesnt nec convert to it, just has properties, it can cause gyno? and an ai
can stop that? i mean im only talking if the dhea is causing too high of estrogen
levels. and doesnt dht(and dht compounds) counteract this? like i think i read
that if u run dht and test you wont have to worry about estrogen?

well all the same seems p5p is the solve all for those prolactin and estrogen
sides... i mean i doubt any issues should arise, ive run both of these
compounds b4 without issues. im just concerned that combining them, and then
taking dhea for lethargy might cause some issues, and 150mg p5p ed should
stop that?

now wat im asking is the ai is used to elevate test levels, but torm should
have me back to normal by the end of week 1; 4 weeks on it and im not sure
if ill need the ai, so can i just save it for later?

here is some good info on prolactin:


Estrogen is a primary promoter of prolactin release. Of course there are other factors to consider (which we will discuss in a moment) that may trigger excessive prolactin secretion, but the normal trend toward increased prolactin release is due to increased estrogen synthesis<O:p</O:p



Remember, progestin based anabolics such as trenbolone and nandrolone are “double suppressive” because they desensitize the pituitary directly by PR activation. It also appears that no opioid receptor antagonist or aromatase inhibitor can prevent suppression via the PR. Therefore, trenbolone or nandrolone are going to cause unavoidable inhibition of HTPA function by causing suppression via the ER, AR and PR. If one hopes for a prompt and full recovery post cycle, perhaps progestin based anabolics are better avoided, or at least limited in duration of use.<O:p</O:p


Keep in mind that AAS/PH cycles are concidered to be short or very moderate when the duration is 8 weeks or less. Your body should easily overcome this inhibition (shut down of the Pituitary and hypothalamus or HTPA) in a matter of weeks.

[SammyDaHamma]

alright sick so i just need to pick up some p5p, no worries bout estrogen related sides cause there shouldnt be any... aside from that i think im good to go.

as of now:

tren 100/100/100/100/100
sd 0/10/10/20/20

support(run through pct):

silymarin 2g
p5p 50mg
coq10 200mg
fish oil 6g
anything else added as needed...

pct:

toremifene 100/75/50/25
aromasin as needed - most likely not

ill have bloodwork at the end of pct... liver test n lipids?

[SammyDaHamma]

still hasnt come in the mail... im getting bothered :x

[Cajun_1978]

no luck yet on your order?:( Hopefully you get it soon.

[SigepPump07]

alright sick so i just need to pick up some p5p, no worries bout estrogen related sides cause there shouldnt be any... aside from that i think im good to go.

as of now:

tren 100/100/100/100/100
sd 0/10/10/20/20

support(run through pct):

silymarin 2g
p5p 50mg
coq10 200mg
fish oil 6g
anything else added as needed...

pct:

toremifene 100/75/50/25
aromasin as needed - most likely not

ill have bloodwork at the end of pct... liver test n lipids?


your 4th and 5th week are gonna be pretty intense, why dose the tren at 100?

[SammyDaHamma]

ya it came in the mail saturday morning, and i got over trying to recap it so im just going to dose the tren at 80... nothings really happened yet, im sure im just imagining a hardening effect.. oh and i got a flat yesterday, and changing my tire seemed much easier than usual:confused:

ill be going into the gym today for my first real workout since i started this weekend...

[SammyDaHamma]

Day 3 - yesterday

Weight: 157 - 157

Strength: Normal, feel stronger, but I was pretty tired when I got to the gym last night.

Diet: Ive been trying to eat more, n break 4k, but im still around 2.5-3.

Sides: Some lethargy, but I had a long weekend.

Libido: Normal

Notes: Really dont feel Ive been on long enough to be really feeling much yet.

[SammyDaHamma]

btw my computer broke, so most entries may be delayed a day or 2...

[SammyDaHamma]

Day 4 - yesterday

Weight: 157 - 157

Strength: Normal, but feel stronger.

Diet: Ive been trying to eat more, n break 4k, but im still around 2.5-3.

Sides: Some lethargy, Im still tired.

Libido: Normal

Notes: Really dont feel Ive been on long enough to be really feeling much yet. A little more sore than usual, prolly due to increased work out intensity? I got some nice bicep pumps.

[SammyDaHamma]

I might be getting sick :(

Im goin to the gym in a lil bit, kinda excited.

[Cajun_1978]

Not good news about you starting to feel sick. AAS/PH's usually lessen your imune system so hopefully this isn't something too bad. Good luck and let us know how your feeling tomorrow.

[SammyDaHamma]

ya i think im ok, dont feel any worse... just a lot of friends have been feeling off, n getting sick.


Day 5 - yesterday

Weight: 157 - scale was broken... But im lookin noticably swolen.

Strength: Had some big weight jumps, feel stronger.

Diet: Ive been trying to eat more, n break 4k, but im still around 3-3.5.

Sides: Some lethargy, had to take a nap.

Libido: Normal

Notes: Starting to feel and see affects, Im liking it.

Day 6

Weight: 157 - 161.5 and I would like to note the day b4 I started my cycle I weighed in at 152.5...

Strength: Feel strong, good arm workout.

Diet: Ive been trying to eat more, n break 4k, Im real close, but it might be too much, I think a lot of my weight gain is bloat.

Sides: Some lethargy. Real thirsty and hungry, and then im uncomfortable cause im too full.

Libido: Normal

Notes: Nuthin new to note. I start sdrol tomorrow :D Im expecting big gains.

[yokingupsick]

sammy you end up scrating the otc pct then?

[SammyDaHamma]

havent posted in a min, so...

Day 20

Weight: 152.5/157 - 165.5 but at the end of week 2 I broke 170, but felt/looked a little too bloated, and was putting on too much fat.

Strength: Feel really strong, have had huge jumps in strength.

Diet: Was gaining a lot of fat, cut back down to about 2500. I appear to still be growing, but leaning out, so im happy...

Sides: Mild to severe lethargy, bp gets a little too crazy when I take ephedra to couter, and without it Im still getting into those prehypertension numbers... I broke out real bad the other day, dunno for sure if it was related, or just that I passed out dirty(witout washing face all day) and woke up sweating cause it was so hot... Mild back pumps, and im always soar(only taking one day off from the gym a week...) im peeing a lot more than normal, but the urine looks normal.

Libido: A bit off, and I have some testicular shrinkage, but no issues wit my girl...

Notes: Its not even the end of the 2nd week of sdrol, and Im already thinkin ending at the end of week 3... its just kinda harsh, and Im only at 10mg. im loving the gains though.

[Cajun_1978]

Good to see you back Sammy. I think dropping your cals is a smart idea, I think too many people belive you should eat, eat, eat at the expense of just "gaining wieght". I have stuck around 2400-2500 calories my whole cycle and have had nothing but solid gains in muscle with no gains in fat, actually my fat percentage has dropped 1%.

I too have been experiancing lethargy. But other than that nothing else really. Slight shrinkage as well and libido change sounds identical to your experiance. Now where I differ is my back pumps have been very mild to non existant. I take 6g of Taurine a day and this seems to work very well for me.

I actually bumped up the M-drol to 30mg for the last week (ran it 10/10/20/30) and other than lethargy I am good to go. Try and stick with it, but hey you know your body better than we do so if you think you need to stop the M-drol then by all means go ahead. Good luck on the rest of your cycle. :D

Oh by the way I'm at 186Ibs, up from 175Ibs thats 11 solid arse pounds. ;)

[SammyDaHamma]

Day 24 - yesterday

Weight: 152.5/157 - 167 and Ive leaned out a lot, and look super vascular...

Strength: Feel really strong, have had huge jumps in strength. bench jumped 20lbs from last week...

Diet: Still kicken it around 2500, gains have been slow n steady, and Im leaning out.

Sides: Lethargy has gone down, bp seems to have gone back to normal. My skin is still oily, but im not breaking out so bad. The back pumps are pretty minimal, havent even really needed taurine. I feel a lot more stable than last week.

Libido: A bit off, and I have some testicular shrinkage, but no issues wit my girl... really hasnt gotten worse.

Notes: If everything stays the same, i think ill be able to stay on thru the end. Im going to keep it at 10mg, and Ive been pulsing the tren 40mg non w/o days 80mg w/o days, gains are good, sides are minimal.

can you run mdrol at 10mg for 5 weeks? i just want to try and hit a solid 175, but dont want to up my calories too much cause im enjoying the kind of gains im making now...

[50percentanimal]

Strength: Feel really strong, have had huge jumps in strength...

can i get before and after numbers for the big ones (bench/squat/deadlift)