Trans_Isomer
November 19th, 2005, 12:23 PM
PCT products - What you need and why
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First of all, let me say that this is not a thread all about PCT, as I think Krzna has created a very good thread to that end. However, as I've done more and more research and heard from, or read articles by, the true "legends" in the game, it seems as though there is a wealth of contradictory information that needs to be sorted out for our board. Let's start with the typical types of PCT drugs:
Suicide Inhibitors:
6-oxo - at based
Rebound XT - atd based
Kilosports Attack - atd based
Novedex XT - atd based
ALRI Ultra Hot - atd based
Arimidex (Anastrozole) - prescription
Serms:
Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) - prescription
Clomid (clomiphene citrate) - prescription
LH mimitek:
HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin)
Natural Test Boosters:
Activate
Diesel Test
Blue Rhino
Other additions:
Fenugreek
Long Jack
Avena Sativa
DHEA
7-oxo-dhea (oral or transdermal)
Tribulus
Now as most of you know by now your pct will vary based on a few factors. The first is the length of your cycle. The longer your cycle is, the more suppression that occurs and the longer the body needs to recover. Secondly, the types of aas/ph/ps that you use. Obviously your ergomax cycle won't require the same pct as a cycle of test/tren/winny, which leads to my third point, which is the amount of drugs you are using, both in a mg sense and a one, two, or three ph/aas sense. I will discuss the different pct drugs taking into account all 3 variables above.
What are we trying to do during PCT? Our pct should have 3 goals.
1.) To increase production of Gnrh, and thereby LH FSH, in order to increase test production.
2.) To control the effects of circulating estrogen in the body during a time of zero-low test production.
3.) To return testicular mass in an effort to maximize the increase in LH and Fsh in order to maximize test production.
These three goals mean addressing the two negative feedback loops. In order to do this, we must discuss the products that can help, and how to use them.
6-oxo - 6 oxo is a suicide inhibitor that binds to the enzymes in your body making them inactive. When this occurs the body's natural response is to release Gnrh, which stimulates LH production, and thus an increase in test.
Why is it no longer used as frequently as other products: 6-oxo was the first over the counter suicide inhibitor that actually worked. Unfortunately, it has since been surpassed by stronger ai's that are atd based. In fact, technically we could call 6-oxo "AT" which simply tells you that it does not have everything that "ATD" has to offer us. The other drawback was that 600mg daily were needed for AT based ai's, where as 100mg of ATD will yield better results.
ATD products - ATD is a more advanced ai that also binds to the enzyme rendering it inactive. The difference being two fold. Firstly, atd products are 2.8 times more powerful than at based products. Secondly, atd also addressess the androgen negative feedback loop as well as the estrogen negative feedback loop.
Why isn't it used as much as nolva and clomid: ATD is a rather new product. Science certainly states that it is the best pct product, but nolva and clomid are tried and true, and have been staples of pct protocols for years. Of course there is also the resistance to change, which is why, regardless of sciene, many people will use nolva no matter what.
Nolva and Clomid - Serms are anti-estrogens that are selective in the tissue where the bind. Nolva binds to estrogen receptors in the breast and bone, and clomid in the suprapituitary. Both of these drugs block estrogen receptors which renders circulating estrogen useless. The do not eliminate circulating estrogen, as they do not bind to the enzymes.
Why are they so popular: Serms have been around for many years. They are known, especially clomid, for creating a huge increase in LH, while blocking estrogen. They have often been used in combination to maximize the anti-estrogen effects in as much tissue as possible, while also maximizing the production of LH.
HCG - HCG is an LH mimitek. When injected it is the equivalent of sending huge amounts of lh directly to the testes. When this occurs test production is directly stimulated in the testes. HCG can be used on cycle to maintain testicular mass by sending regular levels of lh to the testes on a bu weekly schedule. It is often continued into pct in order to maintain high lh levels and testicular mass.
Why don't we hear much about it: HCG is by injection only, and it's illegal. While being quite useful, it is not an option for everyone.
So, where do we stand? Well, despite the ******* consensus, nolva and clomid are junk. We should all be using a strong atd dose for the best results, but why? Let me explain...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, let me say that this is not a thread all about PCT, as I think Krzna has created a very good thread to that end. However, as I've done more and more research and heard from, or read articles by, the true "legends" in the game, it seems as though there is a wealth of contradictory information that needs to be sorted out for our board. Let's start with the typical types of PCT drugs:
Suicide Inhibitors:
6-oxo - at based
Rebound XT - atd based
Kilosports Attack - atd based
Novedex XT - atd based
ALRI Ultra Hot - atd based
Arimidex (Anastrozole) - prescription
Serms:
Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) - prescription
Clomid (clomiphene citrate) - prescription
LH mimitek:
HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin)
Natural Test Boosters:
Activate
Diesel Test
Blue Rhino
Other additions:
Fenugreek
Long Jack
Avena Sativa
DHEA
7-oxo-dhea (oral or transdermal)
Tribulus
Now as most of you know by now your pct will vary based on a few factors. The first is the length of your cycle. The longer your cycle is, the more suppression that occurs and the longer the body needs to recover. Secondly, the types of aas/ph/ps that you use. Obviously your ergomax cycle won't require the same pct as a cycle of test/tren/winny, which leads to my third point, which is the amount of drugs you are using, both in a mg sense and a one, two, or three ph/aas sense. I will discuss the different pct drugs taking into account all 3 variables above.
What are we trying to do during PCT? Our pct should have 3 goals.
1.) To increase production of Gnrh, and thereby LH FSH, in order to increase test production.
2.) To control the effects of circulating estrogen in the body during a time of zero-low test production.
3.) To return testicular mass in an effort to maximize the increase in LH and Fsh in order to maximize test production.
These three goals mean addressing the two negative feedback loops. In order to do this, we must discuss the products that can help, and how to use them.
6-oxo - 6 oxo is a suicide inhibitor that binds to the enzymes in your body making them inactive. When this occurs the body's natural response is to release Gnrh, which stimulates LH production, and thus an increase in test.
Why is it no longer used as frequently as other products: 6-oxo was the first over the counter suicide inhibitor that actually worked. Unfortunately, it has since been surpassed by stronger ai's that are atd based. In fact, technically we could call 6-oxo "AT" which simply tells you that it does not have everything that "ATD" has to offer us. The other drawback was that 600mg daily were needed for AT based ai's, where as 100mg of ATD will yield better results.
ATD products - ATD is a more advanced ai that also binds to the enzyme rendering it inactive. The difference being two fold. Firstly, atd products are 2.8 times more powerful than at based products. Secondly, atd also addressess the androgen negative feedback loop as well as the estrogen negative feedback loop.
Why isn't it used as much as nolva and clomid: ATD is a rather new product. Science certainly states that it is the best pct product, but nolva and clomid are tried and true, and have been staples of pct protocols for years. Of course there is also the resistance to change, which is why, regardless of sciene, many people will use nolva no matter what.
Nolva and Clomid - Serms are anti-estrogens that are selective in the tissue where the bind. Nolva binds to estrogen receptors in the breast and bone, and clomid in the suprapituitary. Both of these drugs block estrogen receptors which renders circulating estrogen useless. The do not eliminate circulating estrogen, as they do not bind to the enzymes.
Why are they so popular: Serms have been around for many years. They are known, especially clomid, for creating a huge increase in LH, while blocking estrogen. They have often been used in combination to maximize the anti-estrogen effects in as much tissue as possible, while also maximizing the production of LH.
HCG - HCG is an LH mimitek. When injected it is the equivalent of sending huge amounts of lh directly to the testes. When this occurs test production is directly stimulated in the testes. HCG can be used on cycle to maintain testicular mass by sending regular levels of lh to the testes on a bu weekly schedule. It is often continued into pct in order to maintain high lh levels and testicular mass.
Why don't we hear much about it: HCG is by injection only, and it's illegal. While being quite useful, it is not an option for everyone.
So, where do we stand? Well, despite the ******* consensus, nolva and clomid are junk. We should all be using a strong atd dose for the best results, but why? Let me explain...