CVM extreme

[dinoiii]

So, as promised, I want to start this thread to have Steve convince me it is the product for me.

What I know is the following label facts you posted:
CVM Xtreme:
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 heaping scoop
Servings per Container: 50

Amount per Serving:
CVM (Cell Volumizing Matrix Blend)
DiCreatine Malate – 4 grams
Betaine Anhydrous – 2 grams
Taurine – 2 grams
2:1 DiArginine Malate – 1.5 grams
Glucuronalactone – 1 gram
Glycocymine – 500 mg.
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine) – 100 mg. (5000% DV)
Vitamin B3 (Niacin) – 50 mg. (250% DV)
Folic Acid – 200 mcg. (50% DV)
Vitamin B12 – 125 mcg. (42% DV)

NOW: in fair comparison, the popular products I know of that is comparable + that receive all the HYPE is Syntrax's Swole V2 + SAN's V12.


Vs. Syntrax's Swole V2:
The comparisons to be made
GREATER Dicreatine Malate (INC by 1 gram)
NEW Diarginine Malate (therefore INC by 1.5 gram)
GREATER Glycocyamine (INC by 500 mg)
ABSENCE Guanidinopropionic Acid (DEC by 500 mg)
ALL NEW B complex - Fab 4
all the rest = the same
INCREASED # of servings by 10/container

Vs. SAN's V12
The comparisons to be made
Tricreatine Malate (simply mix of di + mono creatine salts)
N-acetyl LGlutamine
(then the label lists a bunch of cpds that make them look like novel but remain just combos of the rest of the products in your product)


* In use of the aforementioned 2 products in the past, I have seen V12 "works" > Swole V2 (but I think both are great products), yet I am convinced this is solely the vasodilatory properties of "Arginine AKG". I will be coming off an M1T cycle in 1.5 weeks and want to begin another cycle on something within the dicreatine malate class. I thought it may be interesting if you could convince me (one of the biggest critics of many products - anyone familiar with many of my posts from other boards) to use your product. With me - convincing me is an interesting challenge. I need
#1 - The science you propose (outside of a regurgitated ad)
#2 - Results (measured in some quantifiable tally) users have reported
#3 - Why it is superior to (at least in your opinion) to the products outlined prior with the exclusion of a greater qty of this and that. That is obvious.



I do NOT want this to seem condescending. I think the defense of your product would be good for the board to see.

[SNS8778]

Dinoii:

Sorry it took me a few minutes to reply. As many here know, I give out all my contact info so I had my screen full of consumers on AIM.

I am not into the ultra scientific explanations but enjoy reading yours. I will address your questions as best I can and if I miss anything, let me know and I will reply again.

You pretty much called me out on comparing our products to Swole V2 and V12 so I will offer comparisons.

Everyone reading please know that I am not knocking Swole V2 or V12, just answering a questions as I was put on a spot to do.

I am going to split my reply over multiple posts to make it easier to read.

[wedgylx]

I have seen V12 "works" > Swole V2 (but I think both are great products),

I like swole V2 better actually. I've used both (as you could probably guess haha) and got better results from swolev2.

However I'm really liking this CVM extreme so far and I think it might have gotten its hooks into me for good

[italionstallionl]

what would the benefit of taking cvm extreme of e2 matrix be

[dinoiii]

Ok wedg -


What were the "better" results you saw? It is quantifying why you thought you got something better and what I am to look for.


btw: I thought there would come another cardio-type response you and I didnt agree on. :lol:

[SNS8778]

Comparison to Swole V2:

Again, not knocking Syntrax, but I am addressing a question that was asked of me.

Point by point comparison to Swoles ingredient levels:
- Swole has 3 grams of DiCreatine Malate, CVM Xtreme has 4 grams.
- Tie on the Betaine anhydrous.
- Tie on the Taurine.
- Tie on the glucuronalactone.
- Tie on the glycocymine.
- We do not have Guanidinopropionic Acid; I am not a big fan of that ingredient so we did not include it.

Now, what we have that Swole V2 does not have:
- 1.5 grams of 2:1 DiArginine Malate, which many users reported superior to Arginine AKG long before we ever made this product. That is why we used this substance was because of the better feedback on it.
- B vitamins for enhanced absorption.
- No aspartame which is a big issue with me because so many people said they got headaches off swole v2 because of the high concentration in there.

So, in synopsis:
- 25% more DiCreatine Malate per serving.
- 2:1 DiArginine Malate included for added endurance and pumps
- No aspartame
- B Vitamins added for absortpion
- Also, a milder, less over-powering flavor.

[wedgylx]

Ok wedg -


What were the "better" results you saw? It is quantifying why you thought you got something better and what I am to look for.


btw: I thought there would come another cardio-type response you and I didnt agree on. :lol:

haha, the "better" results were just that. I got bigger on swole V2, and stronger. I was running the same diet and taking them both by the directions


Great post steve. I did that exact same comparison for myself when i got my tub and that's what got me so excited

[SNS8778]

Comparison to V12:

Again, not knocking SAN, just answering a question:

Point by point comparison to V12 ingredient levels:
- Tie on the DiCreatine levels.
- V12 has 2 grams of Betaine glycocymine per serving. Now there is already plenty of controversy that glycocymine is an unhealthy ingredient to start with, but the appropriate way to mix it is 4 parts Betaine to 1 part glycocymine. If you have the right blend, why not show it? We break it down to show that ours is the correct ratio at 2 grams (4 parts) betaine and 1 part (500 mg.) glycocymine.
- Tie on the taurine.
- V12 contains 1.5 grams of Arginine AkG. We have 1.5 grams of 2:1 DiArginine Malate. Feedback on comparison of these ingredients is largely in favor of the 2:1 DiArginine Malate almost anywhere you read based on real life feedback.
- V12 contains 1 gram of NAG. Sorry, but we all know that 1 gram of glutamine is essentially pointless and just window dressing. We do not include ingredients just for show. If we are going to put an ingredient in a product, it is there for a reason.

Now, what CVM has that V12 does not have:
- I have already expressed my opinion on the correct ratio of betaine anhydrous to glycocymine.
- Already drawn the comparison between Arginine AKG and 2:1 DiArginine Malate.
- CVM contains 1000 mg. of glucuronalactone whereas V12 contains none.
- B Vitamins added to enhance absorption.
- No aspartame in CVM.

So, in synopsis:
- Tied on many ingredients.
- Again, see my thoughts on ratio of betaine anhyrous to glycocymine.
- Again, see my comparison or research people comparing 2:1 DiArginine Malate to Arginine AKG.
- CVM has in it's favor the 1000 mg. of glucuronalactone.
- CVM contains B Vitamins for enhanced absorption.
- CVM contains no aspartame, V12 does.
- CVM has a milder, less over-powering flavor.

[SNS8778]

#1 - The science you propose (outside of a regurgitated ad)
#2 - Results (measured in some quantifiable tally) users have reported
#3 - Why it is superior to (at least in your opinion) to the products outlined prior with the exclusion of a greater qty of this and that. That is obvious.

I do NOT want this to seem condescending. I think the defense of your product would be good for the board to see.

Couple of observations:
- Results in a quantifiable tally - this is a new product, so I don't know what you expect here.
- Why is it superior - I tried to hit on that in my point by point posts. You say except for a greater quantity of this or that, but hey, having a greater quanitity or an appropriate ratio can mean alot in terms of results.


I feel like I have outlined valid reasons in the above posts. Not to mention, regardless what you put in print, real world results speak for itself.

I am a big believer in making quality products and letting results speak for themselves. That is why I choose not to over science things, talk alot of hype, or talk over peoples heads. At the end of the day, people either like your product or they don't. They either feel like you make a better product than the rest or they don't.

My personal goal and this company's goal are simple ones: To make top quality products that are cost effective to the consumers. Notice I did not say cheaper, I said more cost effective. Cost Effective involves getting the best quality product for your money. We do not cut corners on ingredient quality. This encompasses two goals here, the top quality and the cost effective one.

The other goal is to be offer the best cutomer service in the industry. Regardless of how busy I am, I make myself accessible on here, on AIM, on MSN, by e-mail, and by phone. I make myself accessible not only to answer questions about our products, but take the extra time to help people with their diet, training, etc. I speak for everyone here when I say that every single consumer is important to us and we feel that this industry is lacking in several things which are priorities for us to provide.

Dinoii - you say that trying to convince you is a hard thing to do; I respect your knowledge and your opinions, so let me say this, rather than for me to convince you with words, try the product, either the CVM Xtreme or the Creatine E2 Matrix, and let them convince you with results.

[SNS8778]

I hope that I have covered everything I meant to cover. It is really hectic here right now so if I missed something, I will try to get back to this post as quick as I can. We are extremely hectic today. If you want a quicker reply, get me on AIM and we can have a discussion on there.

[italionstallionl]

i have never used either, but must say after reading that i would try cvm before v12. but like everything, things work differently for different people

[dinoiii]

You are very well spoken Steve and I like the way you think. Turn the real-world argument on the science guy - certainly a respectable point.

I do "over-science" sometimes (ok, all the time) - admittedly, but it is very important to me to simply not ingest something because of purported effects. Hell, for the same argument that is offered me when people say they use "liver-protectants" for "piece of mind."

Science if done properly should be exemplified through the real world too and this is just something more for your arsenal. The pinnacle of scientific study translates to the real world, but if not beginning with proper formulation on paper, I choose not to play lab rat. I will listen to people's results with awe perhaps, yet if it is doing something internally that is not recoverable from, well no dice.

I was actually on the fence for a long time before jumping to methylated PHs --> but keeping cycles reasonable + using proper PCT convinced me the risk:benefit ratio could be worth it.

You have done a good job presenting that which you know here. While I may have been looking for reactions and the like, I moreso enjoyed the fact you just said flat out - "science guy - stop playing science for a sec!" And it was then you used something that caught my attention --> nothing but your cost effective argument with customer service statement. See you have by far "PROVED" the customer service statement - a word very strong to use in the science world - ALMOST UNHEARD OF in fact. But I figure your honesty is what won over my business.

To a job well done.

Yeah, you didnt have me at hello or anything, but good post.

[Founder]

Want a job steve? :D

[max von]

Steve
i think that was an excellent post and am very proud of you i am planning on taking your product as soon as i am done with the stuff im on now. I am not a science guy like Dinoiii and do not know all the ins and out but any guy who tells you that he will personally email you back and does as you have for me and im sure for others that is proof enough for me that this company is a great company and deserves to sow what the have reaped. I think that there are many products out there that Dinoiii mention and i am not trying to cut on you but whay dont you call the 2 other companys and see if you can talk to the owner bet you cant or better yet get them to join the board and post there personal email addresses. It all comes down to trust and trust in a company and there are very few that i would trust but this is one and there is no convincing me. Just my personal thoughts.


max von

[SNS8778]

Thanks Max. I appreciate the kind words. I always do my best.

[max von]

anytime sns8778 you deserve it i got your back buddy


max von

[wedgylx]

anytime sns8778 you deserve it i got your back buddy


max von

Of all companies I have dealt with, SNS is definately the most down-to-earth. Steve you're a great guy when it comes to explaining new products, helping with existing products, giving HONEST opinions, and even just everyday conversation. SNS had definately impressed me in quality and more importantly customer service. I see you and your company going places. Your new products are the balls, and your "older" products are incredible too. Plus even though you're a small company, you manage to keep the prices low. I'm very impressed with you and your company

[italionstallionl]

i completely agree with wed, and that is one reason i bought e2 matrix, i feel like sns is a company i can trust and have been very impressed by the reviews and all of the quality posts and as wed said, honest, replies and tips steve has given us.

i must say i am very impressed by this forum, d.a. and almost all of the members of this board (roiderkid being an exeption)

[SNS8778]

Thanks guys. I always try to do my best in helping people, whether it has anything to do with our products or not.

My promise to everyone is that no matter how large we grow, the level of customer service that we give will still be there, or get even better. After all, it is you guys that we are here to help, and I feel that if you support us, we should go above and beyond in efforts to support you as well.

I don't view consumers as sales numbers; everyone is uniquely different, and I'm (we at SNS) are here to help everyone reach their own individual goals. I like to establish quality relationships with all the consumers that I come in contact with whether it is on here, on AIM, via e-mail, etc.

[max von]

wouldnt that be nice if all companies did that for there customers

max von