Dioniii ...serm's and HCG

[jason75]

Does HCG negate the effect of serm's the same way exogenous testosterone negates the LH stimulating potential of an serm?

Also, I've always found myself to be very sensitive to HCG, could it be possible to run a cycle of HCG for a month with an AI, then cycled off onto possibly 2 weeks clomid? What would be the advatages/disadvatages of doing this versus just running a low dose 200-400 mg test cycle for 4-6 weeks.

Thank You.

[dinoiii]

Think Purple Dinosaur in Bedrock - Dino! I may have missed this post [interestingly enough, you did catch all 3 "i's" and most will put only 1 or 2, but I have seen 4 and 5 as well believe it or not. Doesn't always allow for the most fruitful of searches.

HA! On to your questions:


Does HCG negate the effect of serm's the same way exogenous testosterone negates the LH stimulating potential of an serm?

I think the answer to your question is NO, but understand that not many SERMs adequately restore HPTA function (LH) in the first place. Clomid is a notable exception to this rule.

Lets think about what you are asking:

hCG is an LH-mimetic and SERMs are estrogen mixed agonist/antagonists. The increased level of estrogen seen with SERMs (yes, I am talking about whole body estrogens not site-specifics) is likely prohibitive. In any event, hCG is NOT "required" with ALL cycles anyway and it may be more appropriate to address a cycle (incl. length/dosing/etc...) to get a more specific answer to particular agents.



Also, I've always found myself to be very sensitive to HCG, could it be possible to run a cycle of HCG for a month with an AI, then cycled off onto possibly 2 weeks clomid?

"Sensitive" in what way?

And the second half of your question - are we still talking about PCT? In other words, are you saying upon cessation of a cycle you'd want to run

Weeks 1-4: hCG + AI
Weeks 5-6: Clomid

Because if so, this doesn't make sense from an endocrinological standpoint. The SERM should come first, the AI later. hCG has a few applications, but is usally dependent upon the level of shutdown.



What would be the advatages/disadvatages of doing this versus just running a low dose 200-400 mg test cycle for 4-6 weeks.

So, again - are we comparing the above hCG/AI into Clomid vs. Test (various ester?)? Phew, with the lack of details, it may be hard to give accurate estimate - but any SERM (clomid inclusive) as a standalone doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me from a muscle-gaining standpoint. Think about decreased levels of IGF-1, pro-estrogenic activity at the level of the muscle tissue, etc... I mean it is the likely the overuse of SERMs responsible for the so-called "post-cycle crash."


I will await your responses to procede.


D_

[jason75]

I was thinking of just doing a cycle of HCG with an AI, maybe formestane.
This would not be post cycle to anything, just a cycle all in itself, wich I find odd that I haven't read anything about HCG as a standalone lean mass builder...

I'm guessing HCG at 1000 iu's eod(1month) would be enough to put you into supra-physiological(?) testosterone ranges. I'm thinking this would put you in a more anabolic state than one could achieve naturally. I would follow this with clomid at about 25mgs for 2 weeks and maybe go into a Activate XT cycle to decrease SHBG's from the clomid.

Would their be any advantage to doing this as apposed to a modest testosterone cycle followed by a clomid pct?

I'm sensitive to hcg to the point of finding it very anabolic, and I'm wondering why no one else does.

Thank You again Dinoiii.

[dinoiii]

My apologies for thinking this was PCT (I must have seen the forum it was posted in which is why I questioned it).

I think what you are suggesting probably isn't far off but the responsiveness to hCG in the normophysiologic human is less-than-stellar due to their being what is known as a "critical period" for response to this peptide. This is why PCT tends to work because you sort of re-approximate that "infancy critical period."

If not anything, the thought is minimally academic and with decent reason, but I cannot say I have a lot of experience with the protocol you are suggesting unfortunately.

Are you thinking of going with TD or oral Form or even perhaps a combo (though it could get pricy if dosing appropriately - I could see the average 200-pounder using 250mg x 4 doses of oral form and about 200 mg x 2 doses of TD form)?

I tell you what, there is an article that I believe exists on the net by Anthony Roberts (hope I am getting the author correct; though he's sometimes surely outspoken and has his share of enemies, the article is well written and makes a LOT of sense and may be in line with your hypothesized cycle) with hCG and stimulation of thyroid function which may lend some credence to your suggestion.

If you do end up using this kind of protocol, please do let us know how it works for you, or drop me an email at askdinoiii@hotmail.com - purely academic rationale.


D_