Emergency!!!!!

[nilla]

I just received a call from my doc telling me to go to the energancy room cause my blood test i had today said my # are elavated.
Something to do with kidneys and a protien getting in the blood that can cause kidney failure!
The said they need to hydrate me!
What the **** is going on??
Please help!
Im on the way now but do i start pct?
I will get back on here once i return "hopefully better"!

[jdee297]

Ask your doc!

Im not a doc but i would say yes you need to stop and to do that healthy i imagine pct is involved.

[DriverDan]

See EXACTLY what the values are first before you freak out. It could just be a precaution for small elevation. On the other hand you could be close to death :(

[Nex]

aare you drinking enough water?

[RisingAgainst]

I just received a call from my doc telling me to go to the energancy room cause my blood test i had today said my # are elavated.
Something to do with kidneys and a protien getting in the blood that can cause kidney failure!
The said they need to hydrate me!
What the **** is going on??
Please help!
Im on the way now but do i start pct?
I will get back on here once i return "hopefully better"!
way to go bro... lol you should have at least told us what you were taking, how long, doses, etc etc etc............

[MidnightSpecial]

Here are his stats (from his footer). Why would anyone run Superdrol at 30mg for 6 weeks? Maybe that's part of his problem.

6.1
213 lbs.
30 years old.

Past cycles;
Superdrol 6 weeks @ 30 mg.
Halodrol 4 weeks @ 50 mg.
Halo 75mg 6 weeks/Bold 1000mg 10 weeks

Anyways, I hope you're OK...

[RisingAgainst]

Here are his stats (from his footer). Why would anyone run Superdrol at 30mg for 6 weeks? Maybe that's part of his problem.

6.1
213 lbs.
30 years old.

Past cycles;
Superdrol 6 weeks @ 30 mg.
Halodrol 4 weeks @ 50 mg.
Halo 75mg 6 weeks/Bold 1000mg 10 weeks

Anyways, I hope you're OK...
na this is an old cycle, I helped him with the gyno he got from that one.. LOL

[mw1111]

Why even ask here??? Go to the DR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:x

[RisingAgainst]

Why even ask here??? Go to the DR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:x
he did, he asked his bro's at DA man, lol chill

[Voodoo]

I just received a call from my doc telling me to go to the energancy room cause my blood test i had today said my # are elavated.
Something to do with kidneys and a protien getting in the blood that can cause kidney failure!
The said they need to hydrate me!
What the **** is going on??
Please help!
Im on the way now but do i start pct?
I will get back on here once i return "hopefully better"!

Go to the doctor/er/whatever. What levels were elevated? Find out whats up.

[jdee297]

he did, he asked his bro's at DA man, lol chill

LoL

**** doctors when you have DA

[ShiftyCapone]

LoL

**** doctors when you have DA

****in' 'A' right doggie....

But yeah, that sounds kinda weird? Protein getting into the blood via the kidneys? Anyhow, hope all is/goes well. Good luck.

[solomon1979]

I just received a call from my doc telling me to go to the energancy room cause my blood test i had today said my # are elavated.
Something to do with kidneys and a protien getting in the blood that can cause kidney failure!
The said they need to hydrate me!
What the **** is going on??
Please help!
Im on the way now but do i start pct?
I will get back on here once i return "hopefully better"!

Hope everything is okay. My only recommendation to you is to be honest with your physician with what you've been taking the last several weeks. I hope you keep us up to date with your situation.

[JLestar]

What led you to seek help? Did you experience any sides while on cycle or post? Good luck.

[still alive]

hope this isn't serious.too bad he didn't have someone to update us on the on whats going on.the suspense the suspense!!!lol.hope your alright bro.

[nilla]

Why even ask here??? Go to the DR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:x


Maybe you did not read my thread before you decided to act a fool:x

[nilla]

Anyway,im back from the doc and what i can put together from what he said was my "cpk" levels were high something like 1400 and it was due to my working out.
He said muscle damage such as "working out" can cause these levels to rise.
He did another test that said it was indeed skeletal muscle and not heart related.
He also said creatine can and my high protien diet caused this.
He did say my kidneys were fine and it was just a matter of getting these numbers down by which they put 2 liters of fluid in me via i.v.
They then retested and the numbers started to decrease.
Once done and checking out he told me to get off the high protien and creatine for two days and retest my cpk levels then follow up with my doctor.

[nilla]

What led you to seek help? Did you experience any sides while on cycle or post? Good luck.


My doctor is well aware of my diet and prohormone use thats why i got tested.
Awhile back for a check up i mentioned everything i was taking and he told me he would help me be safe with what ever stuff i may be taking.

[nilla]

aare you drinking enough water?

Yes.
I mentioned this and they said this would of happened regardless of water intake.

[solomon1979]

Anyway,im back from the doc and what i can put together from what he said was my "cpk" levels were high something like 1400 and it was due to my working out.
He said muscle damage such as "working out" can cause these levels to rise.
He did another test that said it was indeed skeletal muscle and not heart related.
He also said creatine can and my high protien diet caused this.
He did say my kidneys were fine and it was just a matter of getting these numbers down by which they put 2 liters of fluid in me via i.v.
They then retested and the numbers started to decrease.
Once done and checking out he told me to get off the high protien and creatine for two days and retest my cpk levels then follow up with my doctor.

This is good news. I kind of thought that this was going to be how this turned out. Good luck with PCT.

[Nex]

Anyway,im back from the doc and what i can put together from what he said was my "cpk" levels were high something like 1400 and it was due to my working out.
He said muscle damage such as "working out" can cause these levels to rise.
He did another test that said it was indeed skeletal muscle and not heart related.
He also said creatine can and my high protien diet caused this.
He did say my kidneys were fine and it was just a matter of getting these numbers down by which they put 2 liters of fluid in me via i.v.
They then retested and the numbers started to decrease.
Once done and checking out he told me to get off the high protien and creatine for two days and retest my cpk levels then follow up with my doctor.

dude! i just got my blood work and he said my cpk levels where high too. but i didnt have any nitrogen in my urine. (im also not on any creatine) but i keep my protein moderate and do not over do it. and i drink about 1.5-2 gallons a day.

[nilla]

So does anyone have experience with this?
Dinoiii?
Is this common among us working out people?
Is any of this PH related,from what he told me i think not,, but??

Thanks for those who cared and gave educated responses;)

[nilla]

dude! i just got my blood work and he said my cpk levels where high too. but i didnt have any nitrogen in my urine. (im also not on any creatine) but i keep my protein moderate and do not over do it. and i drink about 1.5-2 gallons a day.


interesting...

[celc5]

Nilla, you sure know how to get people's attention with the titles on your threads... "Emergency" and "The Real" are my 2 favorites :D

I wonder if cpk fluctuates after monster meals and working out like maniacs in general.

What were your baseline levels and what made you decide to get bloodwork at this point? What I'm gettin at is that it may not have changed at all even with the cycle, but we wouldn't know without pre cycle blood work.

[mw1111]

Maybe you did not read my thread before you decided to act a fool:x
I did read your thread , but if that happened to me i would go straight to the ER like he said- not get online and post questions:confused:

[dinoiii]

Anyway,im back from the doc and what i can put together from what he said was my "cpk" levels were high something like 1400 and it was due to my working out.
He said muscle damage such as "working out" can cause these levels to rise.
He did another test that said it was indeed skeletal muscle and not heart related.
He also said creatine can and my high protien diet caused this.
He did say my kidneys were fine and it was just a matter of getting these numbers down by which they put 2 liters of fluid in me via i.v.
They then retested and the numbers started to decrease.
Once done and checking out he told me to get off the high protien and creatine for two days and retest my cpk levels then follow up with my doctor.

So does anyone have experience with this?
Dinoiii?
Is this common among us working out people?
Is any of this PH related,from what he told me i think not,, but??


What I anticipate having happened is more along the lines of this...your doctor saw that you had a high CPK level and wanted to check kidney function for something called myoglobin. The two in conjunction could be a tip off to the diagnosis of Rhabdomyolysis; sort of a muscle-wasting scenario that does spill over into the kidneys due to the newly-released proteins.

Anyway - to answer your rapid-fire questions, you could check my "For the Love of Science and Medicine II: Another PH case" - part of the case study was a rhabdo and the other peliosis hepatis.

The Rhabdo is NOT related directly to PH use; though muscle-trauma, secondary to working out is consistent with elevated CPK levels. I have told everyone that when they get their liver values checked that they too should get CPK done...a concurrent elevation in both liver enzymes (mild) and CPK (mild-->moderate) is likely a scenario related to your working out. Urine myoglobin would merely differentiate the two; BUT in order for any working out individual to participate in accurate blood testing, you NEED to abstain from working out for up to 48-hours for accurate blood levels here.


D_

[mw1111]

Glad things turned out ok!!! Drama seems to follow your cycles:D

[Nex]

my doc said that cpk is risen from intence weight training or/and steroid use. he said ckp is something to do with skeletal muscle damage and repair.

[XXfatalityXX]

hope all is well my friend, stay hydrated and stay strong!

[nilla]

What I anticipate having happened is more along the lines of this...your doctor saw that you had a high CPK level and wanted to check kidney function for something called myoglobin. The two in conjunction could be a tip off to the diagnosis of Rhabdomyolysis; sort of a muscle-wasting scenario that does spill over into the kidneys due to the newly-released proteins.

Anyway - to answer your rapid-fire questions, you could check my "For the Love of Science and Medicine II: Another PH case" - part of the case study was a rhabdo and the other peliosis hepatis.

The Rhabdo is NOT related directly to PH use; though muscle-trauma, secondary to working out is consistent with elevated CPK levels. I have told everyone that when they get their liver values checked that they too should get CPK done...a concurrent elevation in both liver enzymes (mild) and CPK (mild-->moderate) is likely a scenario related to your working out. Urine myoglobin would merely differentiate the two; BUT in order for any working out individual to participate in accurate blood testing, you NEED to abstain from working out for up to 48-hours for accurate blood levels here.


D_


Thanks for you response.
I was told to stay off a high protien diet and working out for the next 48 hours then a retest of blood just as you mentioned.

Im just curious if this happens to everyone and is normal and if it will always happen when i return to high protien/training?

[nilla]

Glad things turned out ok!!! Drama seems to follow your cycles:D


Some drama i admit:D

But really,how many on here do you really think get blood values looked at once or twice a month,not many i bet.
That said, i bet this "drama" would be a norm for most as im just seeing what most go without knowing;)

[PUREStrength3]

Maybe your 6 week cycle of SD had something to do with it :eek:

[nilla]

Maybe your 6 week cycle of SD had something to do with it :eek:


Umm,i got a little prolactin from it and that was it "now gone", not to mention liver and lipids were great.
Some that run sd 3-4 weeks get that.
Not sure why you or anyone feel its necasary to keep brining this up to me,especially when it has nothing to do with cpk levels OR the cycle im running.
So, NO!
The six week cycle had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT or this thread!

[dinoiii]

Thanks for you response.
I was told to stay off a high protien diet and working out for the next 48 hours then a retest of blood just as you mentioned.

Im just curious if this happens to everyone and is normal and if it will always happen when i return to high protien/training?

The protein should not have bearing on your urine output per se (perhaps elevation of BUN and/or creatinine - esential waste elements; "B" = blood, "U" = urea/waste product of protein metabolism, "N" = nitrogen/also from protein metabolism - Creatinine gives us an idea of clearance of these waste products - still I am siding with the fact that your doctor is erring on the side of caution with the CPK elevation in asking that you abstain from protein...I personally don't see this as necessary).

Will the CPK elevations return to the same level - they could; but you too could have an "isoenzyme panel" drawn which will aid the source of the CPK elevation. CPK + Isoenzyme MM at 95-100% (dependent upon lab standard) + low urine myoglobin + mildly elevated "liver" enzymes (AST/ALT; which are not specific to the liver) is ALL prototype in a regularly weight-trained athlete training at a significant level (intensity).

So, yes - it does tend to occur though to different levels.


D_

[nilla]

Thanks for the responses;)

My main worry is that i will not be able to continue a life of training which will kill me!

I guess will have a better idea of whats up by monday when i retest and see him.

[celc5]

Doc, let's say Nilla's elevated CPK is in fact just due to the high level of training. In that case, is it something to be concerned about? I'd find it a bit extreme for Nilla to have to completely dump this lifestyle over elevated cpk.

[iankingsley]

This happens to me every year at work. I work with zinc and selenium, they test your blood for any levels. My cpk is always around 1200-1400, with high bun creatine and a bunch of other stuff. They call me at home every year and tell be i have diabetes and i'm going to have a heart attack(cpk). I went to my doctor and he said its from working out and its not uncommon. I also dont fast and he said that makes a huge difference. These idiots have been doing this for years to me and i aint dead yet. And its funny when all these fat pieces of shit who never worked out in their lives think there better off than me. Sorry for the novel but its cool your be fine

[San Quinn]

Maybe take a break from the Ph's for a while. Also how much protein are you taking in? I am no doctor but I know people (around 300 lbs) that take in crazy amounts of protein and never had an issue like this.

Good luck with everything and glad to hear your ok

[still alive]

Doc, let's say Nilla's elevated CPK is in fact just due to the high level of training. In that case, is it something to be concerned about? I'd find it a bit extreme for Nilla to have to completely dump this lifestyle over elevated cpk.yeah,that would suck.glad your ok nilla.iam curious of this as well.

[LexusKid]

BUT in order for any working out individual to participate in accurate blood testing, you NEED to abstain from working out for up to 48-hours for accurate blood levels here.


D_

D_ , is fasting for 12 hrs also required?

[GotTest]

BUT in order for any working out individual to participate in accurate blood testing, you NEED to abstain from working out for up to 48-hours for accurate blood levels here.
I guess Creatine use should STOP at this time as well, correct?

[dinoiii]

Doc, let's say Nilla's elevated CPK is in fact just due to the high level of training. In that case, is it something to be concerned about? I'd find it a bit extreme for Nilla to have to completely dump this lifestyle over elevated cpk.

I would guess probably about 75% of DA's board members have elevated CPK on a chronic basis (the ones that don't are either not working out intensely enough OR have a high body mass and as a result need to too work out "more intense" than their current status - so its either directly or indirectly related to intensity). And no, this can be completely benign and the detriment of quitting this lifestyle could be far more detrimental.


...My cpk is always around 1200-1400, with high bun creatine and a bunch of other stuff. They call me at home every year and tell be i have diabetes and i'm going to have a heart attack(cpk). I went to my doctor and he said its from working out and its not uncommon. I also dont fast and he said that makes a huge difference...

"Fasting" is highly dependent upon the lab tests run. This will have absolutely NO bearing on CPK levels - however, let's say you are doing a lipid profile...and it could very well be an issue. Still, so often doctors become completely fixated on getting "fasting" levels that they have no idea what happens to someone in the post-prandial (non-fasted) state...which is sometimes FAR MORE TELLTALE.


Maybe take a break from the Ph's for a while. Also how much protein are you taking in? I am no doctor but I know people (around 300 lbs) that take in crazy amounts of protein and never had an issue like this.

Again, high body mass (i.e. - those people 300 lbs.) are likely going to have a hard time inducing enough intensity to cause secondary muscle trauma to any significant degree.


D_ , is fasting for 12 hrs also required?

Again - this is dependent upon the test we are talking about and the purpose. If you at all have a chance, get yourselves set up with doctors that are familiar with sports/bodybuilding, etc... They are few, but they do exist. ;) If you are unsuccessful at finding someone with intimate knowledge of how to procede with a case like yours, you may minimally look for someone who is more open to an exchange of ideas and you can always share information about your lifestyle with such a person to create better rapport.


D_

[dinoiii]

I guess Creatine use should STOP at this time as well, correct?

Perhaps, if we get extremely excited over creatinine levels. Still, it'd be hard to guarantee (barring total saturation) that 48-hours would really do the trick in every case.


D_

[nilla]

Thanks for all the great info;)
I will be doing some more blood work 2morow and then seeing doc for a follow up.
Will keep posted;)

[celc5]

Fantastic discussion fellas! :cool:

Doc, I had suspected what you said about intensity and cpk. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Nilla, thanks for starting this discussion. This thread should be a sticky if you ask me.

[nilla]

Agreed!!:D

[nilla]

Just got my blood drawn for the follow up,ill let you guys know whats up on Monday;)

Dinoii,some questions i have about this.
My numbers being high and after confirming it is due to intense training,would this still of needed emergancy attention?
What i mean is would these numbers of went down on there own and were the i.v fluids all necessary?
What would of happened if i wasnt getting blood test and this went unseen like im sure it does in many people from what i understand?

[nilla]

Saw doc today and it was a terrible outcome.
He says that i need to quit this ph stuff NOW!
My numbers are all out of wack.
My cholesterol was way high and he thinks i will have kidney probs down the raod if i keep this up "like shutdown".
He wants me to stop everything even my statins that i take for high cholesterol.
He thinks the mix of things is too much for my kideys and liver to handle.
The thing that makes me different then some others is the fact i take statins and when getting follow ups "blood test" frequently like i do, it makes reading them hard for a doc while adding ph's to the mix.
Ph's effect your lipids in which gives crazy high cholesterol which is horrible for someone like me.
If im to live a healthy life with low cholesterol i have to do this so that they can now whats causing what.
As it is now they cant tell if its diet,ph's,the statins or what..
So after this cycle its "Al-natur-Al" for me.
This sucks but, my health is too important.

[ItalianGuns]

Hey nilla,

I'm kinda late on this, but dam!! I'm really sorry for all of this....I read the first 3 pages and was about to say that I was happy that everything came out well but then I read your last post......You are making the right choice by quiting cold turkey.....it's just not worth it. Judging from your pic, it's not like you put your body through hell and had nothing come out, you look pretty cut and ripped so quiting is not stopping your dreams. It is logical that because you take a pill everyday it's not going to make your liver happy, not to mention putting on the oral steroid usage in there once in a while. Hope this doesn't make you wanna stop working out, but you are making a wise decision. Take care my friend and I hope that everything goes well.

Christian

[Blackice]

For those that dont know what statins are, can you please explain. Sux your in a bunch, but if thiers a will, theirs certainly a way, hold off for a while, doesnt mean forever.

[Voodoo]

Saw doc today and it was a terrible outcome.
He says that i need to quit this ph stuff NOW!
My numbers are all out of wack.
My cholesterol was way high and he thinks i will have kidney probs down the raod if i keep this up "like shutdown".
He wants me to stop everything even my statins that i take for high cholesterol.
He thinks the mix of things is too much for my kideys and liver to handle.
The thing that makes me different then some others is the fact i take statins and when getting follow ups "blood test" frequently like i do, it makes reading them hard for a doc while adding ph's to the mix.
Ph's effect your lipids in which gives crazy high cholesterol which is horrible for someone like me.
If im to live a healthy life with low cholesterol i have to do this so that they can now whats causing what.
As it is now they cant tell if its diet,ph's,the statins or what..
So after this cycle its "Al-natur-Al" for me.
This sucks but, my health is too important.

oh I just cant wait for the response.... :) :D

[celc5]

I wonder what you cholesterol was pre-cycle. When was the last time you had bloodwork nilla?

Did you take niacin and plenty of EFA's on cycle?

[nilla]

My cholesterol was around 150 total before and after was around "350".
This could be cause the food intake was way higher then before??
No niacin but plenty of efa's..
Im gonna at least do as he says and go through pct and clean out for a month and get retested.
This way i can start fresh,they will test me with diet alone and see were im at, then if a statin is needed they will prescribe one then retest in a few months to see where the numbers are.
Then if there fine i can try adding my own things like "niacin".
Its not smart for me to add these while there trying to see if the statins are the ones lowering it.
Its a step by step process.

[Nex]

My cholesterol was around 150 total before and after was around "350".
This could be cause the food intake was way higher then before??
No niacin but plenty of efa's..
Im gonna at least do as he says and go through pct and clean out for a month and get retested.
This way i can start fresh,they will test me with diet alone and see were im at, then if a statin is needed they will prescribe one then retest in a few months to see where the numbers are.
Then if there fine i can try adding my own things like "niacin".
Its not smart for me to add these while there trying to see if the statins are the ones lowering it.
Its a step by step process.

it also might be the choises in food too. like lots of egg, lots of red meat etc. not sure how your diet is. good luck man. sorry about your bloodwork man, thats a bummer!:(

[dinoiii]

Sorry I have been preoccupied guys (see Off Topic "Family Tragedy" thread fr more), but I have picked some things to respond to in this thread:



My numbers being high and after confirming it is due to intense training,would this still of needed emergancy attention?
What i mean is would these numbers of went down on there own and were the i.v fluids all necessary?

The creatine kinase (or CPK) levels - MOST likely! The cholesterol, on the other hand - NO.


What would of happened if i wasnt getting blood test and this went unseen like im sure it does in many people from what i understand?

Likely nothing.


Saw doc today and it was a terrible outcome.
He says that i need to quit this ph stuff NOW!
My numbers are all out of wack.

PHs may very well be responsible for the numbers being a bit different, but LDL elevation is NOT the prototype with PH/PS/DeS/AAS use, HDL lowering is!


My cholesterol was way high and he thinks i will have kidney probs down the raod if i keep this up "like shutdown".

Kidney problems secondary to high cholesterol? I'm quite certain that is NOT what he said.


He wants me to stop everything even my statins that i take for high cholesterol. He thinks the mix of things is too much for my kideys and liver to handle. The thing that makes me different then some others is the fact i take statins and when getting follow ups "blood test" frequently like i do, it makes reading them hard for a doc while adding ph's to the mix. Ph's effect your lipids in which gives crazy high cholesterol which is horrible for someone like me. If im to live a healthy life with low cholesterol i have to do this so that they can now whats causing what. As it is now they cant tell if its diet,ph's,the statins or what..

What would you and/or your doctor say if I told you it is likely none of the above. Probably 95+% of cholesterol is produced by the liver - diet is rarely responsible (maybe if your saturated/trans fat content is high...but even this has recently been found to be slightly overrated when considering the whole. The pathway for cholesterol elevation through diet (minor <4% contribution in MOST) actually begins with the carbohydrate elevating something else called VLDL (but this is well beyond the scope of this post).

You, my friend, are significantly different because it sounds as if you have 1 of 6 different hypercholesterolemia (hyperlipidemia) conditions. In other words - your genetics dictate what is happening here still. Diet might treat you if you had a Type I Exogenous Lipidemia - but really as you are on statin therapy...this isn't my guess and Type IIA, IIB, and IV account for about 80% (probably higher) or people in similar scenario to yours. That said, we can likely eliminate Type IV which usually shows change in triglycerides only secondary to VLDL synthesis/metabolism defect. That said, you probably have one of the Type II's (we could figure it out if you know your VLDL level). So, your statins may treat this, but the reason you have the condition is usually due to a defect in or absence of the LDL receptors. Niacin may be a good addition anyway (even if staying off PH/PS/DeS/AAS) because its primary role is to actually increase HDL (H = "H"elpful cholesterol; the good stuff) and HDL actually has the primary role of eliminating the bad stuff - take steroids or PH's and eliminate the HDL, then you have nothing to get rid of the overriding LDL (L = "L"ethal cholesterol; the bad stuff).

So, see how you react to the cessation of PH/PS/DeS first. And Continue your fish oil (2-4 grams combined EPA/DHA per day as I have stated is the researched recommendation I offer clients). Additionally, you MUST increase your fiber intake (blond psyllium and oats have awesome supportive research to suggest they actually "soak up" the LDL and would likely give you an additional boost.

If no positive effect seen, inquire with your doctor about adding niacin (800-1000mg per day to get just at therapeutic level) and monitor your liver as Niacin + Statins can concurrently wreak havoc on your liver together. Your doctor will likely coach you into going on the pharmaceutical drug Niaspan (unnecessary, but if you can get it paid for by insurance, so be it).

You could perhaps then consider some sterol employment if still out-of-whack: policosanol, ecdysterone (as this is useless as an ergogenic, it does have benefits to modify cholesterol), etc...


For those that dont know what statins are, can you please explain. Sux your in a bunch, but if thiers a will, theirs certainly a way, hold off for a while, doesnt mean forever.

Statins actually interfere with the first enzyme (HMG CoA Reductase) in the production of cholesterol FROM THE LIVER (again, keep in mind, that 95+% of cholesterol comes from this source which is why they do in fact "work" however - there is also a perhaps even more notable anti-inflammatory benefit for them). They are the drugs responsible for lowering his cholesterol (total and LDL predominantly).



it also might be the choises in food too. like lots of egg, lots of red meat etc. not sure how your diet is. good luck man. sorry about your bloodwork man, thats a bummer!:(

Eggs DO NOT increase cholesterol levels (quite the contrary due to an endogenous blood level control). Research has shown them to actually LOWER cholesterol.

Red meat is a possible issue, but even most recent data suggests that this thought-process is slightly archaic and it is the pathway I explained above that is responsible, which begins with carbohydrates!

CHO ---> Inc VLDL ---> Inc LDL (IDL)



D_

[nilla]

Great info here.
Thanks for this response;)

I will look into all this and share it with my doctor.

Sorry about sis,,Hope everything turns for the better.

-B-

[wedgylx]

One thing you're going to have to get used to is having your supplements blamed for 99% of the problems you face in life.

Lack of motivation at your job? Must be the supplements.

Relationship on the rocks? Must be because of the supplements.

Any and all health issues you have - must be because of the supplements.

I'm sure your cycle did not aid your overall health, however its very easy to simply blame the sports supplements you're using. 99.9% of the doctors you're going to see will not support/condone even basic supplement usage.

You may want to consider using Coq10 while on the statins. Some people notice muscle pain from the statins however usage of Coq10 has been shown to decrease/eliminate this side effect.

[nilla]

Dinoiii,
I just got a call on a abnormal Alpha 1 Antitrypsin test.
They said my numbers are low at 85.
Im now being reffered to a G.I.
Could this be a Ph issue?
What could deplete this enzyme to make these numbers so low?

[dinoiii]

Dinoiii,
I just got a call on a abnormal Alpha 1 Antitrypsin test.
They said my numbers are low at 85.
Im now being reffered to a G.I.

Probably GI because the normal enzyme is secreted by the liver, but if you produce clinically-significant symptoms (and you may never suffer any of these symptoms at all) - it usually centers on the pulmonary system (lungs) and you'd probably be wheezing and/or coughing a lot, etc...

There is a rare disorder that affects the cilia that line many compartments like the tracheobronchial tree and even sperm; but this is truly rare from my recollection (not really anything I deal with on a daily basis or anything) -- search Kartagener's Syndrome - but again, this is really one of those zebra scenarios that I would be completely surprised with if you had it.

Do you smoke or have you ever smoked? You are just about the cutoff where we would start testing people for certain lung diseases (emphysema, COPD, brochiectasis, etc...) - ever had any spirometry studies done?



Could this be a Ph issue?
What could deplete this enzyme to make these numbers so low?

Genetics (1 in 3000-5000 caucasians get a deficiency of this enzyme so you are in good company). So, the most like reason is that you are white. In white people there are only 2 genetic mutations more common: (1) Cystic Fibrosis and (2) Down's Syndrome.



D_

[nilla]

No spirometry studies done.

Yes, i do smoke once in awhile maybe a pack a month.
I am quiting;)

[nilla]

So does this mean i have a pretty serious prob or will it take more testing to know?
Also, do you know if these numbers will change or, are they what they are and mean im one of these 1 in 5000 people and will have issues concerning my lungs/liver?

[nilla]

From what ive read it seems your mother and father have to both have this to pass it.And if one does it just gives you the gene to pass?
I dont have any family history of this lung cancer and so on, so i wouldnt think its in my family's genetics??

[dinoiii]

No spirometry studies done.

Yes, i do smoke once in awhile maybe a pack a month.
I am quiting;)

Good to hear about the quitting. This will likely be your best long-term move here considering.


So does this mean i have a pretty serious prob or will it take more testing to know?
Also, do you know if these numbers will change or, are they what they are and mean im one of these 1 in 5000 people and will have issues concerning my lungs/liver?

Not necessarily. Some people NEVER get clinical symptomatology despite having the gene.

Chances are you would have already had some sort of liver ailment if it was going to go that route (usually children who have cirrhosis and/or hepatocellular carnioma would be sure-fire candidates almost for alpha-1-antitrypsin deficiency). Still, one of the reasons you are going to a GI doc, I presume is to get your liver biopsied...it stains a particular way if you are going to confirm this diagnosis.

The lungs are more the concern I would have and long-term evolution of things like emphysema or something - but again, curbing the smoking will be one of your best interventions here to prevent the clinical symptoms.

You'll likely be subject to replacement therapy as a long-term plan.


From what ive read it seems your mother and father have to both have this to pass it.And if one does it just gives you the gene to pass?
I dont have any family history of this lung cancer and so on, so i wouldnt think its in my family's genetics??

It doesn't express itself as lung cancer, but as I said above due to its inheritance pattern (co-dominance of an autosomal recessive gene) ... it is likely that both of your parents harbor the mutation. I don't want to get too involved with the genetics to spare you some of the gief, but again there doesn't have to be any clinical history involved.



D_

[nilla]

Not to drag this on but..
Are we pretty much convinced from my numbers alone that i do in fact have this desease?

[nilla]

"You'll likely be subject to replacement therapy as a long-term plan."


What do you mean here?

[dinoiii]

Not to drag this on but..
Are we pretty much convinced from my numbers alone that i do in fact have this desease?

3 of 4 people who harbor severe deficiency will get emphysema if not virtually walking on egg shells toward protecting their lung. Your number (provided we are talking mg - but you didn't post units above) is borderline. I am assuming you are going to your GI doc for a liver biopsy which will be more tell-tale.

I unfortunately, CANNOT make a diagnosis on the internet - you MUST understand my position. I will leave at going to your GI referral and see what they have to say. I am still hoping you will follow up and let us know how you make out.


"You'll likely be subject to replacement therapy as a long-term plan."


What do you mean here?

If you do have some sort of deficiency, it is important to understand that alpha-1-antitrypsin deficiency can be treated BUT NOT cured! There is replacement therapy of the protease (alpha-1 antitrypsin, which is a protein that essentially protects the lungs and liver) if you are deficient.

The other option is that if you have a severely screwed up lung, you could get a lung transplant - this doesn't appear to be the case here, BUT I would really urge you to drop the smoking. It is especially crucial to the outcome in many instances. In fact, many instances - hell...there is only one disease I can think of off the top of my head that smoking would actually be BENEFICIAL for (ulcerative colitis); outside of that, it really is a nasty thing (probably 99.9999% of diseases it proves detrimental). Yet our "perfect" senators, et al will ban steroids, et al... Go figure.


D_

[nilla]

Well i found out that the GI appointment is for "elevated enzymes in the liver" not to sure if this is from the cycle or related to my alpha 1 deal?
Also,i just got another appointment for a "Pulmonary function test" with another doctor.
So,so far it looks like im dealing with liver enzymes,alpha 1,lungs.
I was told by my docs secretary that the lung guys are the ones checking my alpha 1 situation and the GI guys are dealing with the enzymes being elevated.

Im so F'ed up over this!
I know all i can do is wait for my appointments but, its really stressful now.
Not to mention im moving to AZ in a week!:x

[nilla]

By the way,im running pct now and am on a few things such as Torem/natty test/same/supporting supps..
Should these be any effect on my test to come?

[mw1111]

Damn Nilla , you are probably going to have a stroke one day w/ all the stress you have.

[nilla]

Damn Nilla , you are probably going to have a stroke one day w/ all the stress you have.


Wish i could say i was a "hypercondriac" but, its not the case.

Stroke?
Sh*t,bring it on!
At the rate im going ill be in the ER "again" by morning:o

[dinoiii]

As I said above, it was my anticipation that your lungs would certainly be called into question soon. I am happy that you are getting the pulmonary function tests though.


By the way,im running pct now and am on a few things such as Torem/natty test/same/supporting supps..
Should these be any effect on my test to come?

Torem can have effects on liver enzymes.

Unsure what "natty test" means (in other words, list the product or I can't comment).

Also "supporting supps" means nothing as well - PLEASE tell me you are not using red yeast rice!



D_

[nilla]

I did take one dose of ryr a week ago then quite as ive read many of your threads against it and decided against using it;)

Im taking;
torem
deisel test hardcore
same
ace's+B
creatine mono
no-shotgun
x-tend
ax old pct "methylated"
A ton of protien powder,like 100+ grms a day.

This is taking a step back but i just want some feeling that this will all come out ok.
With that said,can these alpha1 test numbers of mine be altered by diet/supps?

Also,can this# of 85 i have go back up on its own?
How about going down more,and why if yes?

Thank you for all info and concern

B

[nilla]

Dinoiii

Im still awaiting my results for the alpha 1 and my doc seems to think it will be ok though??
On a side note, ive had a liver ultra sound and they said my liver looks like it "could" have some inflamation..
Also, my liver enzymes are still high.
Remember though, im still running a serm "Torem" and a Methyl "Old AX PCT" and just got off a cycle so maybe this is the reason for the inflamation??? Thoughts?
He wanted to do the liver biopsy but i said i was still on the torem and maybe this was the cause for the inflamation/enzymes, then he said i could try and to get off EVERYTHING and wait 6 weeks and test again and if still high levels a biopsy is needed.
I also had high iron that he seemed concerned about, not sure if this is to worry about?

And finally,i also had my polmonary test and will get results the 8th.
I seemed to do well on all things except for getting the air out of me when blowing out.
She said i was a point away from being low norm,a 79 i believe.
Blowing out i was good around 104.

Anyway, if you could give me some feed back on this inflamation situation id really appreciate it.
Just wondering if its all cycle/pct related and will hopefully go back to norm to avoid this biopsy...


Thanks Bro

-B-

[dinoiii]

Im still awaiting my results for the alpha 1 and my doc seems to think it will be ok though??

ok, let us know


On a side note, ive had a liver ultra sound and they said my liver looks like it "could" have some inflamation..

Interesting notation from an Ultrasound!


Also, my liver enzymes are still high.
Remember though, im still running a serm "Torem" and a Methyl "Old AX PCT" and just got off a cycle so maybe this is the reason for the inflamation??? Thoughts?

Yes, the torem has a significant level of hepatic transformation. What is in the "Diesel Test Hardcore?"


He wanted to do the liver biopsy but i said i was still on the torem and maybe this was the cause for the inflamation/enzymes, then he said i could try and to get off EVERYTHING and wait 6 weeks and test again and if still high levels a biopsy is needed.

That's likely prudent.


I also had high iron that he seemed concerned about, not sure if this is to worry about?

This depends...do you eat a lot of animal products?


And finally,i also had my polmonary test and will get results the 8th.
I seemed to do well on all things except for getting the air out of me when blowing out. She said i was a point away from being low norm,a 79 i believe.
Blowing out i was good around 104.

Yeah, pulmonary function is challenging for most people. "Normal" is a silly connotation if you have never had PFTs done before.


Anyway, if you could give me some feed back on this inflamation situation id really appreciate it. Just wondering if its all cycle/pct related and will hopefully go back to norm to avoid this biopsy...

Yeah, I am guessing at superficial glance that it is due to the Toerm, though I need aid in figuring out what is in this "Diesel Test Hardcore" - How were you dosing the SAMe?



D_

[nilla]

Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 1 tablet
Servings per Container: 120
http://www.discountanabolics.com/images/curve_topright.jpg Amount Per Serving % Daily Value B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 3 mg 150% Zinc (as Monomethionine) 5 mg 34% Selenium (as L-Selenomethionine) 30 mcg 42% Copper (Chelated) 250 mcg 13% Proprietary Blend: 1671 mg ** Maca (12:1), Epimedium (Horny Goat Weed) (min 40% Icariin), Avena Sativa (standardized for Avenacosides A&B), Arginine HCL, Arginine Pyroglutamate, Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris (min 20% Protodioscin), Di-Indlyl-Methane (DIM), Rhodiola Rosea, Rosemary, Panax Ginseng, Tongkat Ali (Eurycoma Longifolia Jack), Dodder Seed, Choline Bitartrate, Cnidium Monnieri, Cordyceps, Bioperine

[nilla]

As far as the ultra sound i did get a peak at the results and it said something along the lines of "it could be inflamation or just be normal" which i have no idea why it contradicts itself like this??
Seems very unclear to me.

As far as the "same" goes i didnt start running it till pct and i run it at 600mg per day.
"Yes i know its very dumb to have not run on cycle" again, maybe part of my problem here?

I know the serm can have some effects but how bout the ax pct with the methyl,is this aiding in this liver inflamation/enzymes being elavated?

To me, it sounds like all this is just turning out to be the norm for running all these toxic supps??
Hopefully.....

[nilla]

Dinoiii

Why do you not seem to agree with the ultra sound showing inflamation?
What should have been done to tell this?

Do elevated enzymes and inflamation run together "cause inflamation"
Should it go back to norm?

Thanks for any and all replys in advance;)