Dinoiii....?

[jason75]

I have alot of Test cyp, it was a good deal that I couldn't pass up......

Anyhow I almost regret buying it cause I really don't want to do long cycles anymore. I hate being shut down for long periods. So this leads me to my Q's.

Is it possible to do short 2 week cycles of test cyp, and if so what doses would be good and how could i effectively keep shut down from being too hard.

Also, how often could one run these cycles and what kind of pct type bridge would be advisable?

I used to run long heavy cycles in my 20's (32 now) some for up to a year, btw my test levels are fine now 760 last time i had the checked 2 months ago.

I respond very good to test, only 200mg blows me up real good and clomid always got me back with no sides.

I very much appreciate your knowledge and am very thankful that you share it with all of us, really I could of used some of it about a decade ago when i ran my first test cyp cycle for 2 1/2 months with no pct or an AI...

[dinoiii]

Is it possible to do short 2 week cycles of test cyp, and if so what doses would be good and how could i effectively keep shut down from being too hard.

The unfortunate reality is that test suppression in many cases has a virtual mind of its own dependent on so many different factors. My suggesting two weeks would have little impact as far as subsequent shut down, and would therefore be irresponsible as I am unsure.

I can say with certainty that this particular ester is very quick acting and you would likely be able to attain a first-day serum peak with 200mg. You probably wouldn't get a significant reduction of serum concentration until anywhere from 5-8 days, so usual employment of a 2 injection per week protocol is developed. I have seen people run up to 1600mg with varying effects, but again - it is so sporadic (even when talking shutdown; there is NOT a dose-response offering that has been apparent - in other words, it may take only 200mg to shut some down at 1 week, whereas 800mg will not impart significant impact on another person running it at 6 weeks).

One thing I would be particularly nervous of in remote suggestion of two weeks being "sufficient" is that any gains attained in such a fashion will likely regress just as quick, so you'd have to work really hard I would imagine to keep any level of on-cycle gains into the post-cycle realm. Clomid + AI in reverse ramp likely ideal. Still, due to the high propensity of aromatization of test esters, I would run something like E-form through any TEST cycle (2 weeks or 10, it doesn't matter).



Also, how often could one run these cycles and what kind of pct type bridge would be advisable?

As I noted above Clomid + AI would be ideal in reverse ramp. So in other words - Clomid start high, go low...AI start low, go high.


I used to run long heavy cycles in my 20's (32 now) some for up to a year, btw my test levels are fine now 760 last time i had the checked 2 months ago.

WOW - if we are talking ng/dl for the test, this is really good. Do you recall a free level?


I respond very good to test, only 200mg blows me up real good and clomid always got me back with no sides.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The only rationale as to why I might add the AI is to attempt to maintain something into the post-cycle realm.



I very much appreciate your knowledge and am very thankful that you share it with all of us, really I could of used some of it about a decade ago when i ran my first test cyp cycle for 2 1/2 months with no pct or an AI...

Did it turn out bad in this scenario?



D_

[jason75]

In retrospect I think that my first cycle (2 1/2 months test cyp no pct) turned out bad considering the knowledge I have now, but not horrible, being 21 I think helped me recover test levels somewhat quickly, but I lost 90% of gains, kept most of my strength, and I dont regret it.....actually being ignorant can sometimes help, as I can remember training even harder when I came off thinking there was no way I was gonna lose a single pound (25 lbs).....kept 5 lol! It helped me the standard and focus I keep to this day.

I sometimes brain storm on Ideas on how to do these short cycles just as a "passing gear" so to speak, I'm never really looking to get huge gains any more, just small ones that I can maintain and increase my strength thus allowing me to train heavier and so on.....

How does ramping up an AI prior to a short cycle sound? Getting test levels naturally high and then doing a short 2 weeks and then jumping on some clomid and go back to doing the inverse AI thing you suggested for a while? I'm thinking this way I could make some small gains that I'd not be able to do so otherwise.

BTW my free test was 18 on a scale of 26 being the limit, not bad I realize, but for some reason I get so big and strong off just 200mgs of test, makes me just want to stay on for life sometimes (not going to).

Thanks again my friend!

[dinoiii]

How does ramping up an AI prior to a short cycle sound? Getting test levels naturally high and then doing a short 2 weeks and then jumping on some clomid and go back to doing the inverse AI thing you suggested for a while? I'm thinking this way I could make some small gains that I'd not be able to do so otherwise.

Ramping an AI prior to cycle could have the opposite result of what you are looking for. While it may bump up endogenous test production, this could bring your levels to a degree of elevation which may be consistent with HPTA dysfunction prior to the cycle.

How can I better illustrate this?

Let's call the above concept, the "test threshold" (defined as the point where test levels being at a certain point might cause suppression).

Pre-cycle: You run an AI and elevate test as you plan bringing baseline levels up to a point - closer to the test threshold. Now, you introduce exogenous test and bring yourself well over the threshold. Despite potential readjustment, you have already challenged your axis.

Personally, I'd wait until you were in post-cycle to introduce the products from both an efficacy and cost-efficiency standpoint.


D_

[jason75]

Thank you for your input.....

Truly if I could find supplementation that would equal gains on par with a 150-200mg wkly test dose I'd be all set.

Pp is coming out with a product being promoted on AM board with testofen in it where they claim gains on par with 400-500mgs of test lol.

What are your thoughts on testofen? They say it acts directly on the AR receptor like testosterone does and blah blah.....and unlike popular opinion it could potentially shut you down.

[dinoiii]

Truly if I could find supplementation that would equal gains on par with a 150-200mg wkly test dose I'd be all set.

Well, this is a noble aspiration but one that is likely unable to be obtained.


Pp is coming out with a product being promoted on AM board with testofen in it where they claim gains on par with 400-500mgs of test lol.

What are your thoughts on testofen? They say it acts directly on the AR receptor like testosterone does and blah blah.....and unlike popular opinion it could potentially shut you down.

PP already has a couple of fundamental flaws I recently went over with one of their other product ingredients...if they attempt this, I will be all over them. The product doesn't work orally and if they try and spin this into a transdermal effort, they will be met with much opposition. This has NEVER been supported and the outrageous claims are downright illegal without evidence. The FTC might be a better tip.

The effects of Testofen would appear more promising if they worked through the actions of testicular androgens rather than adrenal. The hypothesized rationale surrounding why Testofen may have a positive effect is that it stimulates the hypothalamic peptide - CRH which in turn stimulates the pituitary gland to secrete ACTH which subsequently stimulates the adrenal gland. Remember, that I said these sources were indiscriminate (oftentimes when no-one believes in the crossover feedback pathways I have proposed for years and why you’d start an anti-cortisol protocol only after 2 weeks of your PCT have already concluded).

Recall that Fenugreek and its extracts have also been supported to increase ESTROGEN in the same way because of the indiscriminate stimulatory effects of the adrenal gland are also based in the interconversion of androstenedione (if anyone can recall how highly aromatizable this is) and testosterone. There is no data as of yet behind perhaps combining this product with an AI or something to that effect, but that may be interesting.

Safed musli is less-than stellar the way it has been purported and subsequently extracted.

In my opinion the original study (unfortunately released with vested interest) on skin fold estimate decreases in the arms and thighs are probably more an effect of the fenugreek seed’s impact on lowering blood sugar than this suggested significant impact on testosterone. There are a whole host of flaws with the study as well – like selection bias, etc…

And there is a reason Scivation (once examining their own blood values) discontinued their Testofen product … prematurely marketed and with virtually NO 3rd party support. This does NOT gain my approval.



D_

[jason75]

Very informative answer, thank you again.

The product in question by Pp uses some type of phospholipid delivery matrix.....this supposedly increases the fenusides (?) bio-availability as well as the methoxyisoflavone (also included).....In which the combination gives results of 400-500mgs of test p/w like gains.....

I'm not sure why a company with a building reputation (that seems to be good so far) would make such bold astonishing claims unless they feel it actually works.

Also while I have you how do you feel about resveratrol as a serm?

[thebigt]

been having a similar discussion with dinoii over at am. there seem to be a lot of threads where people are being encouraged to substitute resveratrol 'sustain' for a serm. if what dinoii has proposed turns out to be real world proved, a lot of people are going to be less than satisfied with their pct. i for one have been persuaded to put resveratrol on hold.:D

[dinoiii]

Very informative answer, thank you again.

The product in question by Pp uses some type of phospholipid delivery matrix.....this supposedly increases the fenusides (?) bio-availability as well as the methoxyisoflavone (also included).....In which the combination gives results of 400-500mgs of test p/w like gains.....

I'm not sure why a company with a building reputation (that seems to be good so far) would make such bold astonishing claims unless they feel it actually works.

Also while I have you how do you feel about resveratrol as a serm?

Yes, many times the delivery method and the like uses alcohols and the like that will give "suggested" feelings of a product "working" but I remain unconvinced in many cases when looking objectively at it.

"Building reputations" has NEVER stopped anyone in the industry before from releasing a premature and less-than-stellar-product in many instances. ;)


D_

[thebigt]

been having a similar discussion with dinoii over at am. there seem to be a lot of threads where people are being encouraged to substitute resveratrol 'sustain' for a serm. if what dinoii has proposed turns out to be real world proved, a lot of people are going to be less than satisfied with their pct. i for one have been persuaded to put resveratrol on hold.:D

curious about something called t-force by omega.

[jason75]

T-force's main is Fadogia something or other, and i've tried it, nothing.....

I first started it at the recomended dosage for 2 weeks then bumped it up and up, to the point where I'd be taking like 6-8 at a time just to see anything, and sad to say that I got nothing, I notice more from trib.

[dinoiii]

Omega is a quality company - most underrated for sure. Good People in charge there...let's just say you may see ole dinoiii have a more intricate role with this company in the not-so-distant future?!?!?!?



D_

[dinoiii]

As for Fadogia, you may need to dose it a bit higher, but personally, I care for Fadogia a bit more than trib these days - provided it is sourced right, which is sometimes trickier - HA! Only a few places you can get "quality" raws here.

;)


D_

[thebigt]

nice responses guys, thanks.:D

[dinoiii]

I believe Solomon has used the product with good results too - so I would recommend you PMing him as well. I don't think he'd mind to share his experience. He may have brought it up to me over on my LB subforum, I am unsure - but I know we have discussed this product publically somewhere.


D_

[dinoiii]

Ok, here's a native-forum link:

http://www.discountanabolics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10259&highlight=Fadogia



D_

[thebigt]

Ok, here's a native-forum link:

http://www.discountanabolics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10259&highlight=Fadogia



D_

so sol ended up trying this? for $30 it looks like it's worth the chance. besides it has dinoii's blessing. made my order for this week already, it's on my list for next week.:D